Powered studio monitors. Does anyone have an opinion?

[Corey]

Well my reference amplifier has died. [insert bugle music] It lived valiantly and battled hard to sustain my excessive volume levels and heavy metal tomfoolery but alas time and entropy have won out in the end. [salute]

So now I have to buy something new. I have decided on active monitors. Does anyone have an opinion? Currently I am swaying toward these:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/g=rec/search/detail/base_pid/603273/

http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/60/603273.jpg

I can get a pair near here for $700 and they have them in stock. Anyhow if anyone has any opinions please let me know. :)

[eric_darling]

Sound is a very subjective thing, and I float from one manufacturer to another (though there really are only a couple I trust). Usually, I buy stuff from JBL or Genelec. If you've never treated yourself to the 1029A (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=NavBar&A=getItemDetail&Q=&sku=262251&is=REG&si=feat#goto_itemInfo), you're in for a surprise. These are about $500/ea., but they'll knock your socks off.

I was happily introduced to Genelec by an audio engineer buddy of mine about 8 years ago. These guys really know what they're doing.

[Corey]

Yes I looked at the Genelecs. Excellent monitors but just slightly out of my range. No doubt those would be the way to go if money weren't an issue. Or the event 20/20 bas. JBL used to be a favorite of mine but the last 5-6 times I have listened to their newest gear the sound just doesn't seem to stack up, certainly not against those Genelecs. Genelecs would probably be my first choice in an ideal world.

Hmmmm. Maybe I should just go buy a cheap reference amp and save up for the Genelecs. My existing speakers are superb, I can probably muddle through for a bit with one of these:

http://www.northernsound.net/Sales/PowerAmps/alesis/alesisamps.html#RA150

BTW Eric if you haven't heard the Event 20/20s, they're great. Superb. Similar general sound to the Genelecs actually.

[eric_darling]

That sounds intriguing. I'll definitely have to check those out, then. I'm moving the office in a few months to a building that we're finally buying. There's going to be this great little edit suite, and after it's sound-proofed, I'll need to add some very good self-amped monitors.

[Corey]

Well FWIW Eric I just spent 3-4 months intensely researching and studying studio design, etc. in my spare time. Even invented a new line of acoustic treatment products which cost less than existing products, work better, and look about 40 times better. Even did a quick look at the feasibility of it, I emailed 3D models of the products to local stereo/home threatre stores, every single one was interested. One guy almost bum rushed me, and he's got a national chain. For him it was about appearance and price. Anyhow that all being said, you know me, developing the idea is all the fun so the business side will just die on the vine like all the rest of them. :)

But the gist is that I think the monitors are much less important than the room at this point. So keep that in mind. You can easily build a top notch pro room for almost nothing if you have the knowledge. If you don't then it's worth it to pay a pro to to the basics. The main thing is to balance the absportion and reflection frequencies and eliminate standing waves. The very last thing you want to do is use only acoustic wall tile. It doesn't balance the room, it kills it. Plus the ratings they post are inaccurate. They test tiles alone and then reccomend you mount them together to form a sheet, i.e. so the sides are no longer exposed. Ridiculous. There is a large difference between profiled and flatsheet materials. HUGE.

I'm leaning towards the slat system where you put in non-parallel walls and leave 1.5" gaps every board or so, these acts as trap allowing sound to enter the cavity between the new wall and the old one but not return to the main room. For my ears this is the way to go for real quality "balanced" full-room sound and will minimize the need for bass traps. If you combine it with flush mounted monitors and some back wall/ceiling absorption you should have a pretty good room. The main thing is just to make sure that you have no reflected sound coming from behind your monitors and no reflected sound reaching your left ear from your right monitor and vice versa. One good thing about balancing your whole room rather than just the engineers seat is that you can have more than one listener in the room and off axis at that. For any mixing room I've been in, this is integral. There's nothing worse than trying to crowd 2-3 people/clients into the room's "sweet spot". A good balanced room is a pleasure to work in.

Anyhow I ramble. I'll post some pics of my studio once I get the walls in. I've been waiting to do that but I think I might do it over the Christmas thingy. :yes

[Corey]

BTW here's a peek at one of the pieces I designed. I have to keep the rest secret for now in case I find a management partner someday. But suffice to say I actually designed a complete full range line perfect for today's home theatres, etc. and the secret weapon is that several of the pieces are skinned with Native American art (silkscreen). Those ones have a very high wow factor. :)

Available also in chrome, "vintage movie theatre red", Cherry wood. etc. The design aesthetic is sort of "IKEA meets reality". The production cost on these is so low that the stereo guys are salivating. The visual aesthetic is strong and fully customizable, (i.e. send us fabric swatches and we can skin yours to match your theatre walls/drapes, etc.) so the consumers are salivating. And the core effectiveness (full range) and super-practical designs will have audio professionals salivating. I'll probably never get around to doing anything with it but who knows. The market is amazing and the timing is ideal.

[Corey]

Ah what the heck, here's one more for fun. But that's it, I swear. This is the one I call, "Wedgy". Suffice to say this one has a tricky little corner mount and can be used for about a zillion different things. Two of these can help tighten up any typical desktop, office, or living room listening setup for under $100. And you can even put your coffee on top of them. :) They have been designed to sit perfectly, look good, and work well in any angle or position. I spent about 40 hours working this design out once I had the core idea. Attached. I wish I could show you the other 3-4 pieces as they are truly the most ingenuous of the group. But anyhow you get the idea I'm sure.

[eric_darling]

That is pretty ingenious, Corey. You're right, there are a lot of lacking options in the good sound gear - mounting and placement being chief problems.

Form meets function - I love it. And as per usual, your ideas, even in the concept phase (which is where most inventors ideas wither, incidentally), are astounding.

I couldn't agree more with your take on room design and surfaces. I have pretty limited space, but I believe I can make it work satisfactorily. There's nothing better than having another pro walk in an edit suite that was desinged just right and watching them get impressed quickly. I hope to enlist the help of an engineer - the timing and cost are key concerns.

[Corey]

There's nothing better than having another pro walk in an edit suite that was desinged just right and watching them get impressed quickly.

Yes I agree. Small rooms are fine, no problem there. There are advantages and disadvantages:

Advantages:

1. Nice short cable runs. Easy to wire.
2. No need for extensive furniture, racks and shelving.
3. Easy to reach everything.
4. Cheap to heat and light. Easy to maintain consistent temperature and humidity.
5. Cheap to soundproof professionally.
6. Easy to secure. Easy to fireproof.
7. Nice short ranges for wireless gear such as, remotes, etc.
8. Easy to see your computer monitor(s).

The main thing is to keep your monitors small, those Genelecs should work very well. Large monitors in a small room don't work well. In a small studio one has to make sure all gear is well shielded too. I owuld say the single most important thing will be to get your monitors flush mounted somehow. People downplay this but it's very important. The nice thing is that it gets you closer to the front wall, and opens up a little room behind you. Ideally you want to get forward of that back wall. A couple of decent bass traps and some profiled wall panels and you should be able to get a nice professional sound.

Of course the main thing is just to have something you enjoy which you personally can relate (the sound of) accurately to the greater world of "consumer systems". Sounds like you have all the elements you need. Having a good pro do a quick walkaround is a great idea, let us know what they say.... It's very exciting stuff Eric, I'm envious of you. :)

BTW here's a nice formula for roughing up a conceptual picture:

http://physics.mtsu.edu/~wmr/reverb_2.htm

from here:

http://physics.mtsu.edu/~wmr/reverb_2.htm

I don't pretend to understand the physics behind it but I've found a lot of the web pages on acoustic absorption coefficients, etc. are handy for visualizing what you want... As for my sound products I'm not sure what to do, I might prototype the line and then take it to someone with business skills. We'll see. If I do, you'll get a couple Wedgies for free. :)

[Corey]

BTW here's another good link which shows you that good soundproofing materials are not expensive, i.e. rigid fiberglass can be used for well under $1/ft2 with superb results if you have well defined goals. Plus it's easy to work with and easy to cover with any cheap porous material of your choice from a fabric store, etc.

http://www.saecollege.de/reference_material/pages/Coefficient%20Chart.htm

The best article I have ever seen on this topic, a "must read" for everyone. Teaches how to place absorption panels using an ordinary mirror...:

http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html

Another nice quick read:

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/eng99/eng99296.htm

"Build your own Bass Trap" is a marvellous page:

http://www.ethanwiner.com/basstrap.html

And for free one-on-one answers to questions from a real pro:

http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=forum;f=26

[eric_darling]

Thanks for all the links, Corey. As much as I know about sound design, I realize that I know very little about room design. :)

Surely, this is a job best left to a pro, seeing as how I have precious little time to devote to setting up a room. So much else to do. Hopefully it won't break the bank. I guess it'll just have to be budgeted into the loan for the building. :yes

[Corey]

Yep it's tough. But you will not regret the cost for sure. The main thing is to decide beforehand if you are going to deal with surround or not because that is going to dictate the entire planning/buedgeting process. In terms of pros be careful of the visionaries. Stick with a journeyman. :)

Use Ethan Whiner's forum to double check facts. He's an audio genius who answers all posts. He can give you the lowdown on anything. :)

Looking forward to some photos. :yes

[eric_darling]

Will do, thanks again.

Pics will definitely be uploaded when the time is right. :)

[Corey]

You got me thinking with those Genelecs. I'm going to just buy a decent reference amp for $250-ish CAN and stick with my new speakers for now. Then I'll grab those Genelecs in Feb. or so and I'll have the extra system for testing. I'd just repair my existing power amp but it's "Creek" brand and you can't get service for them easily around here. Anyhow I just bought one of these:

http://www.behringer.com/BCF2000/index.cfm?lang=ENG

And one of these, so that'll keep me busy until Feb. at any rate... :)

http://www.behringer.com/BCR2000/index.cfm?lang=ENG

Can't say enough good things about these controllers. Cheap, easy to use, and highly functional. The cat's peejays. They can even be used (via MMC) to control lighting, DAT machines, etc. They've got motorized 100mm faders, pseudo-motorized (via LED light ring) "endless" rotaries, dual footswitch ins, etc. All those rotary knobs are all dual function too, i.e. click-to-toggle. So that doubles their usage.

Nicest thing though is that you can daisychain multiple units. At that price it's a great way to lay out 24 motorized 100mm equipped channel strips for $1,000. Absolutely unbeatable. :)

The only downside to Behringer gear is the lack of support here in Canada. If they break, I'm out of luck for weeks to get them fixed under the Behringer warranty. That's the price of value I guess. I usually have pretty good luck, so I'll just keep your fingers crossed.

[Corey]

Bought the Event TR8s today. Not bad. I have to get used to them first though, my ears are still tuned to my old monitors. I'll report back on them after a week or two. One nice thing about them, no lack of bass. I hate sub-woofers, so this is a big plus for me. Actually that's why I specifically made sure to get something with 8" woofers. Anyhow got my Behringer fader control today too, so I'll spend some time monkeying with that on the weekend and post a few thoughts. :yes

[Corey]

One thing about this Behringer fader controller, they weren't kidding when they said "motorized faders". These things pop back really fast. It's almost instant. Very cool.