Digital Cameras (again)

[Mark]

Hey Everyone,

I know that digital cameras have been brought up on this thread time and time again but I thought I would bring it up again anyways since so many people seem to know so much about these things.

Basically I am looking at getting a digital camera, both for myself and as a gift for someone, and I would like to know what you guys think the best "personal use" digital camera is.

It's not a strict definition, but I'm looking for something that maximizes functionality and useful features, while keeping the cost at a reasonable level. When I say reasonable level I'm thinking around $300 Cdn but there is room to move in both directions (preferably down!).

Thanks in advance.

[gbrown]

$300 Cnd Hmmm... what's that, buck-eighty in good-old-US dollars? (Ref: "Candian Bacon" cameo role for Dan Akroyd as the Ontario Highway Officer)

I've been pretty happy with my new Nikon... a bit out of your price range, but I know they have some less expensive models that don't have as many whistles-and-bells. Of course, as with all camera purchases, the FIRST question is: what do you want to shoot with the camera? THAT should be the major consideration.

[Ted Sullivan]

Digital cameras? What are talking about? You mean they have the Internet on computers now???

Sounds kinda high-tech to me Mark...

[Corey]

Define your need. At that price point just try to find something which at least meets your main need.

For example if you want a good lens, which is probably the number one thing affecting image quality in my opinion, then try to find the camera at $300 which has the best lens and ignore everything else. That is probably what I would reccomend personally. You might not end up with a bunch of high tech features but at least you'll be able to snap a sharp pic.

If you have some other desire instead though like storage capacity or battery life or whatever, then find the one which has that. A decent lense probably costs Nikon/Canon/Sony about $300 just to put in a model so it's unlikely you'll get anything great in this price range but I'm confident there's some reasonable stuff around. :)

You know what the very best way to do this is? You guys have lots of friends, ask around until you find one that is in the business or close to the business. Those people will have the very best knowledge on this question because they are up on what's new, know which brands/models get returned a lot, and which ones sell the most. Good luck Mark, looking forward to lots of cat pics. STRIPPIE!!!! :yes

P.S. Another good choice, go to London Drugs. Lots of cameras, great price point, superb service/return policy, and the staff actually know what they are talking about. Even if you don't buy one there it's a great 15 minute education session on what you should be buying, where you get to actually to see the cameras and check them out. Whatever you do make sure the store you buy from has a no hassle return policy. Future shop has a no-questions-asked 10-15(?) day policy. You can buy it, try it out for a week, and if it's not right for you, return it. That's why I bought my LCD there, and it *paid off* because the first one they sold me had a bad pixel. Future shop swapped it for a good one next day, no probs. Most chain stores wouldn't have, they would have required it to have x amount of bad pixels for a return, not just one.

Anyhow that's some ideas. DODGER!!!! :)

[gbrown]

"London Drug"??? Like "Boots". Hmmm... the airfare would really kick up the price of the camera, eh? :D

What Corey says about the lens is spot-on. I do a lot of macro work with my minerals and having a decent close-up setting is important. Here's an auction I've got up on eBay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=2289617678

Click on the image in the lower-right to see what sort of a close up I can get. Mind you, this isn't a full resolution image...just bigger than the one on the front page of the auction. (Hey... ya wanna buy a rock???) By the way, that panarama image at the top of the page was made by stiching together 15 VERY high resolution images. That's really about a 320 degree field of view.

(( You have GOT to love that multi-tab feature in Firefox. It made browsing for the eBay auction really easy... just opened up another tab and put in the URL)).

[eric_darling]

Hey Gary...

I think it's "London" as in London, Ontario, Canada. But that's just a guess - I could be the donkey's pajamas on that one.

And agreed on Firefox - the tab thing is something that the Safari browser on OS X has really got me hooked on now.

[Corey]

I'm not sure how the London Drugs franchise got it's name, good brand though... From their site I see there's only 60 of them and none in Ontario where Mark is, oops! :eek: Seems to me I do remember a "Boots Drugs" from Edmonton when I was a kid, just baaaaaaarely though... None up here now anyhow.

[eric_darling]

Well lookee there... It's a western Canada thing, and a true enigma, since their corporate web site provides few clues.

[Corey]

Sweet! I'll check it out some time and see if I can piece together a story, seems like it might be interesting given the demise of all their competition over the past 20 years. When I was a kid there were at least 2-3 dozen different independent drug store chains in Edmonton, now there are like 3. :)

Here in Cowtown the last one just fell. The city archived their famous landmark "rocket shaped" sign last week for posterity. :o

[eric_darling]

Corey, that does sound like an interesting story. A good topic for a documentary/historical piece. I bet there's a lesson or two to be gleaned, and some interesting strokes of luck (both good and bad) in there to boot. If you get around to that, let us know!

[Corey]

Will do.

Local TV and CBC attempted to do a mini-doc on the drug store closures but everything they do comes out as pure garbage. To give you an idea of where the CBC is at right now, today the "National Art News" leads with "Apple iTunes Downloads now available!". ???

AND here in Canada our tax dollars *pay* for that crap!!! Isn't that outrageous? My tax money paying for a garbage Apple iTunes ad in the same week that they announced over one million Canadian children are not getting enough food to eat. It's enough to make you cry.

iTunes ads are a higher priority than feeding our kids, jeez... Now *there's* a documentary. Just wait until I get my camera. Just wait.

BTW not for nothing but Canada is chock full of shockingly talented artists from every single imaginable sector who have dedicated their lives to the pursuit of excellence, and who can't get any national press *ever* due to these iTune ads and like-minded garbage. Leadership at CBC is confoundingly poor quality and has consistently been so for decades. It's an old boys network which carefully protects itself at all costs.

And to boot, the crappier Canadian programming gets, the more awards they hand out to each other. The CBC news awards itself a few dozen Gemini awards ever year, often for programs with *very* low ratings. Mike Bullard is a good example. He won a "Gemini" award and I guarantee you that you cannot find a single person anywhere who doesn't believe that his show was the worst, unfunniest, most untalented piece of garbage to ever grace the airwaves. I've never seen anything like it. Truly and phenomenally bad in every imaginable way. Even *he* used to admit it, it became a bit where he would spend the first ten minutes joking about how poor their ratings were. ???

To be fair I should mention that the band, "The Orin Isaacs Band" was superb despite everything.

[eric_darling]

I honestly can't wait to see what you come up with. It's guaranteed to make the rest of us think, at the very least.

But take it from one experienced American - if your public funding for television network programming were ever to be diminished, it would probably not be better directed. Corporate interests rule.

[Corey]

Corporate interests couldn't possibly rule anymore there than they do right now, believe me. Not sure if you've been following our "Sponsorship Scandal" inquiry but suffice to say it really doesn't make any difference either way, you're right. You're trading in "stiff A" for "stiff B" at best. Either way the squeaky wheel gets the gravy...

To be clear I have no beef with corporations, there are tons of fine, admirable people running respectable, decent corporations. (such as Indigo Rose) Seriously, you know the story so you know I'm not exaggerating... Nothing wrong with profit. I'm actually pro-corporate. People who earn reasonable profits via hard work and ingenuity are downright heroic. Those folks are the my only hope actually. :) In a world where people like that made up the majority I can guarantee things would be good for everyone. My only problem arises on an individual level with people who operate without conscience. I'll leave it at that.

I'm going to save up for that new Sony now BTW. Seems like a neat camera, no? I've recently gotten my finances organized so now I'm systematically making some efforts toward that camera. Shouldn't be too long. :yes

Entertaining sidenote, just caught episode 3 of season two of The Apprentice. Hee. They couldn't possibly have found 18 less qualified people. :) The one I saw was on "marketing" and it was fun because it treated me to about ten of the worst marketing ideas I've ever heard. Not just standard bad either, *spectacularly* bad. Pour "suds" into the East river to make it look like toothpaste? (???) I wouldn't trust that group with a newspaper route.

I especially enjoyed when the girls showed up in a minivan to "pick up" over 800 cases of toothpaste 3 minutes before the warehouse closes fully expecting all to go well. HAR! What a mockery. Then the guy files for chapter 11. HEE! :)

[gbrown]

Speaking of the CBC... anyone interested in some MP3's of old CBC radio shows circa 1971? I've got a bunch of 33 1/3 LP's that were sent to my college FM station. Anyone for "Rod & Charles Show"?

[Corey]

What's the content of that show?

[eric_darling]

You mean the HDR-FX1? I'd probably still buy the Panasonic 24P camera. HDV is a questionable format for lots of reasons, but foremost is the fact that it's compressed deeper than a Headline News story. You may not miss the missing picture information, but I know I do. It will always be a consumer format, and at least Sony clearly announces it as such. JVC touts it as the next professional phenomenon.

The fact remains that true HD production is cost-prohibitive for most of us. Let alone the fact that our broadcasting outlets are also overly limited. When it finally arrives, we can all expect HDV stuff to be littering the airwaves like cheap DV has for broadcast standard definition television.

Maybe you meant a different model? If so, color me presumptious.

I didn't really mean evil corporate interests rule, just stating what I see as a fact. Our culture puts advertising interests above the interests of meeting basic human needs. All in all, it's a values problem.

[gbrown]

It was a "kid's" show. Kind of silly...kind of wacky. I'll see if I can transcribe one of 'em to MP3 and put it on my site. It's been a while since I've tried to play the disks...I hope they haven't warped in the <gasp> 30 years since I worked at good old KTEQ-FM! (South Dakota School of Mines & Technology!).

<<< enough for now. i'm going upstairs to down a nice brandy and watch yet another Star Trek Voyager >>>

[Corey]

I agree about values Eric, that's all it is. An interesting point there is that almost all little kids will default to sharing rather than hoarding left to their own devices, we "unlearn" that... Alas. Anyhow I'll check in with you once funds are up to snuff before I buy anything.

Gary : Sounds cool. Beyond my scope but I bet some others here would like them, let us know when there's a link... :)

[Corey]

Yep. We were right, great story. From the web:

1945 - Founder Sam Bass opened a 1000-square foot drugstore at 800 Main Street in Vancouver. His initial concept and later Tong Louie's vision and direction, created London Drugs as it is known today.

1953 - London Drugs extended shopping hours to seven days a week, and began offering discount photographic equipment and supplies.

1962 - London Drugs cut the prices on dispensing fees for prescriptions.

Nobody Does It Better

1963 - The second London Drugs store was opened in Vancouver at Granville and Georgia Street. This store achieved the highest per-square-foot sales of any drugstore in Canada.

1968 - After 23 years in the retail drugstore business, the pioneering Sam Bass sold London Drugs to the U.S.- based Daylin Corporation.

1975 - The first Alberta London Drugs opened at Edmonton Centre. London Drugs stores were carrying about 10,000 individual products, making it truly a one-stop shopping convenience for customers.

Great Prices

1976 - H.Y. Louie Group, a B.C. owned and operated company, bought the London Drugs chain from Daylin Corporation. Under the direction of company president Tong Louie, London Drugs strengthened its commitment to provide customers with quality merchandise at the lowest prices possible Superior Selection

1981 - The first One-Hour Photo Lab was introduced at the West Broadway store in Vancouver. It was a major success.

1983 - London Drugs took an early step into the computer age by opening its first full-service Computer Department.

1984 - London Drugs launches the Certified Data computer brand. These custom systems built in house are sold exclusively in London Drugs computer departments.

1988 - The chain grew to 31 stores with the opening of three new Alberta stores.

1989 - Further expansion with another three stores in B.C..

Quality Products

1992 - The company introduced the Audio-Video Systems department, specializing in high-end electronics..

1995 - London Drugs Insurance Services was introduced.

Present - Photo Stations enable customers to view and edit their photos digitally on-line. Sound Rooms in the Audio-Video Systems Department provide a private listening environment. Internet Cafes, where customers can use e-mail and browse the Web.

The Greatest Drugstore On Earth

Mr. Tong Louie

London Drugs' former president lived his life wanting to be known as an ordinary, hard working man. His great business acumen made him a phenomenal success. He equally applied his philosophy of hard work and dedication to service for the benefit of many community causes.

1914-1998


Community Involvement

Our Commitment to the Community Starts at the Top and Reaches Out

Giving back to the community is a corporate philosophy established by the late Tong Louie. London Drugs' corporate contributions are dedicated to Health and Wellness Organizations, Medical Research, Education and the Arts.

Corporate Charitable Involvement

Helped fund Calgary Children's Cottage (a shelter for children who have been exposed to trauma)
Sponsor of B.C.'s annual Variety Club Telethon
Donated funds to help build the Children's Hospital in Vancouver
Participation on the Retail/Wholesale Committee for the Children's Hospital in 1998/99, raised over $1 million each year to help sick kids
London Drugs cooperates with organizations such as the Salvation Army, Boy Scouts, Girl Guides, Beavers, the Muscular Dystrophy Association and others, helping them to raise money
Local Charitable Activities

Commitment to Community

Because nobody knows a community's needs better than the people who live there, London Drugs store managers and staff take the initiative to get involved with local charities. Some good examples are . . .

Annual Stampede Pancake Breakfast in Red Deer.
London Drugs' staff members working the phones for the Variety Club helped raise the money to provide 12 Sunshine Coaches in 1998.
St. John Ambulance, our people are committed to raising funds to train volunteers for this organization.
London Drugs' charitable policy gives flexibility to local store managers to help a variety of local causes. For example, when a local kids' soccer league needs tournament prizes, the local London Drugs can provide gift certificates.

Operation Family Identification

Our Children Are The Future

Pioneered in Canada by London Drugs, Operation Family Identification provides a child identity package for parents and guardians. Supported by Block Parent, Crime Stoppers and the RCMP, Operation Family Identification has provided over half a million identity kits to parents and guardians, free of charge, since the programs inception in 1984.
The identity kit contains a digital picture, fingerprints of the child and all of the child's vital statistics. The parent or guardian retains the only copy of the identity kit. For providing this service, London Drugs has received an award from the Solicitor General of Canada as well as one from the Solicitor General of Alberta.

----------------------------------------------

Anyhow that's that but some interesting stuff on Mr. Tong Louie (http://www.agsci.ubc.ca/history/biography/tong_louie.htm):

http://www.vanymca.org/NoFrame/Facilities/Surrey/
http://www.harbour.sfu.ca/louiecentre/about_the_centre.htm
http://www2.sfu.ca/livinglab/about_us.htm
http://www.amazon.ca/exec/obidos/ASIN/155017231X/ref%3Dbr%5Flf%5Fb%5F6/701-3818538-2558703

Tons more but you get the idea. See *that's* all I'm talking about. Get rich, be rich, and have whatever you want, but use the excess to make your own world a better place to be happy in. Tong Louie was a true giant, from what I have read, I respect him greatly. A great story made even greater by the rarity of people like Tong Louie nowadays. There are hardly any "great business stories" like this being created anymore. R.I.P. Tong Louie. :)

http://www.agsci.ubc.ca/history/biography/tong_l5.jpg

[Mark]

I've been pretty happy with my new Nikon... a bit out of your price range, but I know they have some less expensive models that don't have as many whistles-and-bells. Of course, as with all camera purchases, the FIRST question is: what do you want to shoot with the camera? THAT should be the major consideration.

As for what I want to shoot, I'm not really sure, general things really, just your standard point and click type stuff. I'm not looking for anything very fancy just something that is usable. (Which I know is a terrible definition)

I'm sure that it won't be that difficult to find something, I'm just worries about getting ripped off, or providing a sub par gift.

Thanks for the help.

[Mark]

You know what the very best way to do this is? You guys have lots of friends, ask around until you find one that is in the business or close to the business. Those people will have the very best knowledge on this question because they are up on what's new, know which brands/models get returned a lot, and which ones sell the most. Good luck Mark, looking forward to lots of cat pics. STRIPPIE!!!! :yes

Thanks for the info Corey, that's the game that I was trying to play here on the forum. I remember from the past digital camera threads that there are some people who know quite a bit about that stuff so I was hoping to see what they recommended.

As far as the needs for the camera they are sort of general, although you remind me of one: take pictures of my cats and then send then to people.

I'm sure I'll be able to find something decent, as I've taken many pictures with my friends cameras that I'm sure did not cost more then $300.00. I just didn't want to get something everyone knows is terrible or spend my time lusting after a certain feature that most "in the know" see as useless.

I was going to say about the London Drugs (although you cover it in your later posts) that I have not seen one out here, and doubt that they have spread across Canada.

[Brett]

As far as the needs for the camera they are sort of general, although you remind me of one: take pictures of my cats and then send then to people.

And the tofu sculptures Mark - don't forget about the tofu sculptures. I really want to see www.markstofusculptures.com updated with some new digital photos soon. The sculpture you left with me 6 months ago is starting to smell bad (although it still tastes OK with some soy sauce).

[Mark]

And to boot, the crappier Canadian programming gets, the more awards they hand out to each other. The CBC news awards itself a few dozen Gemini awards ever year, often for programs with *very* low ratings. Mike Bullard is a good example. He won a "Gemini" award and I guarantee you that you cannot find a single person anywhere who doesn't believe that his show was the worst, unfunniest, most untalented piece of garbage to ever grace the airwaves. I've never seen anything like it. Truly and phenomenally bad in every imaginable way. Even *he* used to admit it, it became a bit where he would spend the first ten minutes joking about how poor their ratings were. ???

Personally I like the CBC and am totally in favor of publicly funded TV knowing that exactly what I think publicly funded TV should do leads to some of the mistakes that I see.

As far as what I think that publicly funded TV should do it's: take risks and promote the local. Now you might not think that "Rita and friends" or "The Nature of Things" are risky but try getting then onto private TV! Plus there is no question that "Rita and friends" did promote the local.

I also think that the BBC (for those across the ocean), which the CBC was modeled after, does a bang up job.

Now to be fair to the CBC, the never aired Mike Bullard...

[Sandy]

Mark,

One of my friend's has the Kodak CX7330. She said it is a great camera for her needs. It's in your price range. Good luck in your search!

http://www.kodak.com/eknec/PageQuerier.jhtml?pq-path=2231&pq-locale=en_CA

[Corey]

I have yet to hear Mark be critical of anything. :) :yes

Rita and Friends? :eek: Not where I want my tax dollars going, feed the kids first and then, if there's any soup leftover, we'll see if Rita wants a bowl. But not before. NO SOUP FOR RITA'S FRIENDS!!! :)

Took a look at Sandy's link. Not a bad looking camera for that price range. Might be a good buy... You're fairly safe with Kodak in terms of quality, i.e. it probably won't break before the warranty is up and it's probably reasonably durable. Don't forget to get a cheap tripod, pawn shops usually have decents starter ones around $20-$30-ish.

[gbrown]

Yes, you too can hear the "Rod & Charles Show".

EXPERIENCE the AMAZEMENT at the good old quality of 1980's CBC production.

CHUCKLE at the HUMOUR of Rod & Charles.

Found this:

ftp://ftp.2600.com/pub/bd/1989/121689.mp3

Heh, heh... first part of the recording talks about launching the Hubble!

[rhosk]

Mark, I have the Kodak CX6330 (bought it about a year ago - 3.1 Mpx) and am very happy with it. The only thing it lacks is manual aperture adjust, but other than that, a very nice, user-friendly, affordable digital cam w/plenty of features. My 2 cents.

[Corey]

I was literally purple.

[rhosk]

I was literally purple.

Ya' lost me :huh 'splain.

Need to have an emot that slides over the head :)

[gbrown]

:D Corey listened! :D

That MP3 download reminded me of the college FM stuff I used to do back in the early 70's. The CBC was fantastic with the LP's they sent to the stations. That's how I ended up with the disks that are currently residing in the attic.

Purpurley yours...

[Corey]

At one time CBC radio was made up of good, respectable individuals who were in the radio business because they loved radio. That was back in the days before the first question out of every kids mouth to the career suggestions of their University counselors became, "How much do they make?". Now 85% of our work force is comprised of people who chose a career based upon something other than desire.

Truly what separates Indigo Rose from the pack is the fact that we are all authentic techies. None of us are here begrudgingly or "for the money". I haven't missed a single day in the almost three years I've been here. (Or at least if I did, I made up for it on the following weekend :) ) Can't wait to hop out of bed each day and work on whichever cool project is on deck. I get to do all the art, so it's truly a blast. I can't express in words how much I love this life, :) I mean sure, I could easily be making 5-6 times what I earn now if I had gone into vinyl siding or no-money-down real estate investment instead... I mean that's *obvious*. But here I am, *literally* purple. I also love vinyl siding more than words can adequately express.

But seriously though, when I speak with people who work for both IT and non-IT companies overwhelmingly they spend the entire time complaining about their jobs, their salaries, their employers... You can't build a legacy on that. Good thing I'm not the boss at those places cause I'd walk in on the first day and say, "OK, anyone not enjoying themselves? Bye..." and then I'd replace every single one of them with someone who is genuinely happy to be there.

CBC radio is still home, thankfully, to *some* people who are in it purely for their love of radio. Satellite radio is an interesting development to keep an eye on. Once Stern hits Sirius there will be a huge wave of amateurish non-commerical programming which should be refreshing. Further discussion of that is outside of the realm of what I like to see here in the forum but suffice to say that there have already been some intriguing announcements. :)

[Mark]

Hey thanks for the info Sandy and Rhosk, the koday cameras do seem to be pretty good and in my price range.

I'll let you guys know what I select in the end.

[Corey]

STRIPPIE!!!