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View Full Version : Router, router, what's your function?


Corey
11-05-2004, 06:06 PM
Just bought one'o'these, anyone have any experience at setting up routers? Is the idea here to lock out everything except ports for web and email?

http://www.netgear.com/products/details/MR814.php

What all ports/services should be blocked to gain some decent security?

P.S. I have now come to the conclusion that there is no one on earth more consistently dishonest and/or uninformed than a Future Shop floor sales person. Not sure what sort of culture that place encourages but the guys I met today were very definitely intentionally seeking to mislead me into a router which costs double this one. They told me point blank it doesn't do what it actually does, etc. When I pointed out to them that the box said the opposite of what they were saying, they implied the box may not be right and that the NETGEAR product is faulty. I asked them why it's on the shelf then, and they basically implied it was to keep stupid customers quiet. No joke.

Then, while I was shopping, 6 of them gathered for a confab near me. they were discussing methods of getting more money from customers, specifically charging them to install Norton Antivirus and suggesting to people that if they install it themselves, it won't work as well than if they had paid Future Shop to install it. They were cackling and swapping lines they use to intimidate people. They even mentioned that "once the customer has their computer in the store" that "all sorts of things might *need* to be done". And this right in the aisle of the Future shop in front of customers. They said some very disparaging things. Anyhow just watch, within two weeks that store will have their new "secure yourself" plan in place. $60 to have NAV installed, or the complete security package for $200 with NAV and a $70 router installed the router comes bundled with a firewall. They install to defaults and give you back your unit. If you need it setup, you have to come back and pay another $30.

Terrible experience. Have no fear though, ol' Corey knows *exactly* how to take care of predators. I have no illusions about having made a dent in these guys' non-existent morality but let's just say the moment didn't go their way. Shameful, shameful human beings like nothing I have ever seen. It shakes me to be in the presence of such evil. It's the most predatory thing I've ever seen, even muggers have *some* limits.

I'd like to do a hidden camera thing in there someday, these guys are really something. I can't imagine what their moms would think if they had overheard that conversation, sounds like these guys were raised by Don King and Leona Helmsley.

eric_darling
11-05-2004, 09:04 PM
You caught them on a typical day, I'd say.

Lest you think the problem is limited to this store, here's a little anecdote for you...

Once, I caught a Best Buy employee in a bold-faced lie about the difference between two different kinds of video cables. Needless to say, he tried to pull a fast one on the WRONG guy.

It was fun to hear him say he was getting a job at my company before he knew who I was. I handed him my card only after telling him how he was wrong. One of those rare serendipitous moments I cherish.

Yeah - most consumer routers are the same. You use a browser to access their IP address (usually 192.168.1.1 or 192.168.0.1). They do most of their work without much configuration needed. The ports will all pretty much be closed unless you explicitly open them.

Corey
11-05-2004, 09:20 PM
Yeah, I know the type. One of the floor guys at Future Shop told me that he's actually a programmer for many of the world's top software companies and clears $100K per year, etc. Poor guy...

I've caught a couple people making claims like that guy you ran into, I'm a confronter for the most part and I usual make sure to let them know in no uncertain terms that I know the score, without grinding them too bad unless they continue in the lie after realizing I know it's a lie. Then I grind them.

The state of retail is alarming. The only new jobs being added to the Canadian economy nowadays are $6/hour part time retail positions, so it's not going to get any better either... I feel sorry for young people on their own, it's a tough ride nowadays. With the strength of our dollar it's a clearing house atmosphere right now. If Canadian companies don't get more competetive, our exports will be out of the market within a month or two. And rather than "become better" at what they do, the usual quick fix is to just pay employees less. That's the way it's always gone historically anyhow.

This router admins as you say but it doesn't close stuff off by default, I have to do that myself. So I have to figure out all the ports I need I guess. 80 for web, I think it's 110 for POP3, etc. But I figured someone here might have a list for me with stuff I hadn't considered...

Derek
11-05-2004, 09:59 PM
So I have to figure out all the ports I need I guess. 80 for web, I think it's 110 for POP3, etc. Only if you're hosting them on your computer do you need to keep them open, otherwise close them all.
You might wanna take a trip to https://www.grc.com/x/ne.dll?bh0bkyd2 and probe them to make sure they are closed/stealthed too.

-

Corey
11-05-2004, 10:15 PM
Hmmm, something on my computer must be blocking https, I'll have to figure out what's doing it. Probably Zone Alarm.

longedge
11-06-2004, 03:40 AM
I'm sure you'll be happy with your Netgear kit. Personally I've got a Belkin Wireless Router which I had a lot of trouble with initially. This was after I'd initially bought Linksys stuff which I simply couldn't get working. I got it from PCWorld ( a national chain here ) and they were very good. No problem at all just exchanging my initial purchase and they gave good general advice with a health warning that they didn't have a lot of epertise in the then new line of kit. I can respect an honest "Sorry I don't know but I can find out if you wish."

I had tried to get support from Linksys - what a nightmare. I didn't manage to get a single reply to my phone calls or emails. When I had problems with the Belkin router (eventually resolved by installing the latest firmware) the tech support from Belkin was exemplary. Absolutely first class.

I'm a confronter as well - customers who simply accept bad service in whatever form and do nothing are just making things worse for everyone. At the same time I feel that it obliges you to let people know when you've had a good experience.

The other good thing about my Belkin is that it comes with an open ended guarantee. I'm not quite sure whether that is rock solid or sustainable but then that's what I thought about their level of freephone support which certainly lived up to all my expectations. :yes

Derek
11-06-2004, 06:03 AM
I'm very surpised you couldn't get Linksys working. That's what i'm using now and it has never done anything but work.
I first tried it with a DSL modem - plugged it in and it worked straight out the box. I now have cable modem and as i expected .. same thing! then with a further bit of tweaking to adjust what i need, everything works 'cushty'

On the other hand, I'm not suprised about the PCWorld 'techie' not having a lot of experience with .. well anything, really!
From what i've seen, thay have helped very very little on anything i have questioned them about in the past. I think in order to qualify for working there you just need to look like a geek - but thats just my opinion.
[Hence the reason i don't work there. I'm much more your 'movie star' type!! - and that must be general opinion, i'm sure ;) ]

:huh < PCWorld techie!

As for 'anyone got any tips' - i think its just a case of reading thru the help when configuring it and tweaking what you think you need.
I could add, check this check that etc. but thats all prob been done

The other thing of course: routers dont stop malicious code getting thru. Its more a wall to stop intrusion. With email coming thru anyway, and the web-browser browsing, there is already 'open routes' for any malicious code to get thru using those methods - and they do or will.
I believe Cisco is working on this with Symantec and a couple other biggies to sort this out, tho. Will be nice when the firewall is able to stop any malicious code at the door :) :yes

longedge
11-06-2004, 11:37 AM
We each speak as we find Derek. They are really just sales people and I'd much rather someone give me an honest don't know than pretend to know. The experience of a non ICT literate person might be totally different. and I'm sure that the local management at each store plays a big role in the customers experience. They are less than two miles away from me so the convenience counts for a lot.

As for Linksys obviously that was just how it panned out for me, I'm sure that they couldn't sell their kit if everyone had the same experience. I still maintain that their after sales service is disgraceful - well that might be the wrong description because something that doesn't exist can't be a disgrace can it :).

At the time that I was trying to get my wireless network up and running, there were lots of people on the adslguide forum who were all reporting the same experiences as mine in relation to both Belkin and Linksys (Cisco) .