I'd like some oppinions

[mugurel]

I'd appreciate some oppinions for

http://www.ypson.com/

What do you think about the idea, the method, the prices and so on ...

Thank you

[Corey]

Hi. Well to an end consumer that seal has zero value so I would estimate the value to developers to be equivalent. As for the idea, it's too broad in scope to offer any tangible value to anyone specific. The web site is full of red flags which would scare off anyone serious from the obvious like the many spelling and grammar errors throughout the site such as "The first 10 clients gets" and "Getting Trusted" (a phrase no english speaking person would ever use) to the more subtle such as the keyword stuffing and footer, "YPSON and "The trust way" are names owned by Mugurel Dragusin". No offense but that's hardly a confidence builder. :)

Certainly no one serious would purchase this service from that web site as it is. As for pricing, it is way, way, way too high. The services you are offering, as they currently exist at that web site, are worth $20-$30 per year maximum. No more than that. Hope that helps. :)

P.S. Don't get angry with the criticism, honesty is what I offer and that has more value than anything if your goal is to improve your idea. Don't get discouraged, get motivated. :)

Corey Milner
Creative Director, Indigo Rose Software (http://www.indigorose.com)

[mugurel]

Yes Corey, it really helps ! :yes

I appreciate your honesty, really, this is what I wanted to hear.

- i agree with the grammar errors
- as the price, why do you think is so way high as is per year and there to verify a software takes some time to assure it's clean, as i don't do any reverse engineering to find out what is going on.


I will consider your oppinions. Thank you !

[Intrigued]

I speak strictly from the standpoint of an end-user on this topic.

What Corey says I believe is right on target. The typos and the style in which the typos are happening reminds me of 'spoofed' web sites. The ones that try to dupe (trick) you out of your user name and password. Definitely bad!

The pricing structure reminds me of Microsoft's charges for driver certification, costly.

What I do like...

The judicious use of Flash (not to much, not to little).

I like the color scheme.

Finally... I know folks that deal in the medical records business... the point I am bring up is that gaining trust, especially from business folks... can take time and can be an uphill (hard) battle, at least at first.

And...

In this case I believe you do not want to shoot to low (yes, to low implies that the service is not all that it is cracked up to be (not as good as it is said to be). I would try the on volume approach. In another words... less money on each customer but you then can make big monies on a large customer (client) base! Instead of trying to get a few customers at a much higher price.

By the way... did I tell you I like your Flash graphic on the right side? :yes

Summing it up...

Building trust is something I believe you need to hit hard (work on) right from the get go!

Sincerely,

[Corey]

Well first of all that isn't the value you present to people. To a consumer the product being sold on your site is not "reverse engineering", it is the certificate itself. Developers will not be keen on the concept of you being a person who has a history of reverse engineering other people's software. I'm not entirely warm on it myself to be frank.

I don't think this is something you could improve to a large enough extent to make it feasible. I'll leave it at that.

Corey Milner
Creative Director, Indigo Rose Software (http://www.indigorose.com)

[mugurel]

This one is for dear Corey and other price related people to say like that :)


Let me tell you how I computed the price, there, first thing in my mind is that I can't handle too many customers, so from start I want to make a selection. Why I can handle, because all the job is done manually,

I don't use any spyware detection tools such AdAware or others like it (if were then of course price would be way high for something any user can do).

I am using monitoring tools which helps me detect any activity the software is doing on the computer.

Monitoring consist in ongoing use and testing of the software, I have to use all software's functions (menus, buttons, everything that can be interacted with). After this step it comes the environmental testing where the application could react if something on system changes or on a certain user activity, I have to do that too.

Then, the software must run on a period of time wich can take a week of runtime in order to ensure ther aren't any "by-time" activating functions.

All these, makes me use my experience and time (time, resources such as electricity, internet). Let's take the 700$ package:

A company, has a product and has like 5 updates per year right ? Every single version would need an ONE week ongoing testing, in total would become somewhere around 5 weeks. (I have to mention, I don't consider the ex testing to the ex version, the new ones are being tested as like being first time).

If we split 700$ in 5 parts we get 140$ per week for 5 weeks in a year. If we split 700$ in 12 we get 58.3$/month.

So as comparing the work involved and the assurance there is clean software I believe is quite fair price.

When a user sees the seal they know that software has been manually tested for malicious code !


Thank you for your attention :)

[Corey]

There is no assurance whatsoever for a consumer using your service. Your pricing strategy is not solid, you can't expect your clients to *split* your salary or pay an "Electricity" fee. :) BTW Do you have liability insurance? Without liability insurance you are of course legally liable for financial costs, including lost revenue, due to anything which appears to have leaked through your service, as well as any legal fees arising from the process to your client, i.e. if a supplier loses an afternoon of computer service due to something they can convince a judge you missed, you may owe them $10,000-$20,000 dollars or more.

If they have to hire someone to come in and fix their system, you would also be liable for all those costs.

Corey Milner
Creative Director, Indigo Rose Software (http://www.indigorose.com)

[mugurel]

No, I am planning to build my trust in time and the proof will be the clients and the customers of the clients who will never get a spyware out of an YPSon certified software.

-- There is a statement about i cannot guarantee at 100% it is safe, nobody can! A contract between me and software developer and a contract (terms and conditions) between me and the visiting user to the software company.

Is slow and hard but possible and I'm here for it !

The benefit of software developer: they gain more customers, as those with "intention to download but not sure" may turn into customers, because they trusted the software trial more at beginning and thus greater chances to download.

The benefit for end-user: Many users don't crawl google before downloading a software but they still ask themselves if theya re sure to download and install a certain software so here the certificate comes, to give more trust, as the online version of software to be downloaded has actually been checked.

I know the best way to build trust is to never certify a software that contains spyware and never accept any other variants from software developers than just deep checking and testing, slowly there will be more and more that will see the YPSon certified software is really safe so this is the way I consider right, build trust by customer satisfaction !

[mugurel]

Even those like hackersafe and such, can't guarantee what they certify is 100% safe and I haven't read their terms but I'm sure if I do I would find some disclaimers.

On the certificate I also advise user to download the software if they need it and that i'm not responsible for what software does, it's the user part to assure the downloaded software won't interfere with it's computer software&hardware configuration, resulting in damages of any kind.


Is that simple, me testing a software and offering a certificate for what i tested, this in no way means the user should not be cautious online.

[Corey]

If you are not responsible then the service has no value to consumers or developers. No one will pay money for that.

Saying that, "the proof will be the clients and the customers of the clients who will never get a spyware out of an YPSon certified software" is not assuring. We all know that problems *always* arise in digital systems. Simply denying that fact, and then not having any contingency in place, is not going to make anyone confident in your ability to deal with the reality of the software testing process. Quite the opposite.

Do you have a valid business license?

Corey Milner
Creative Director, Indigo Rose Software (http://www.indigorose.com)

[mugurel]

Yes I do have a valid business license of course.

[Corey]

OK. What classification is that license?

Corey Milner
Creative Director, Indigo Rose Software (http://www.indigorose.com)

[mugurel]

Computer Programming and consuntancy.

[Corey]

Hi. No, I meant what type of license, not which type of business. Every country has different classifications of business licenses. When you applied for your license you would have been required to specify this for them. It is written on your license as something like "type", "class", or "classification". Take a look at your license, what does it say?

Corey Milner
Creative Director, Indigo Rose Software (http://www.indigorose.com)

[mugurel]

Can't find what you are saying, just what my license is for .. and is for what I told you in last posts.

[Corey]

I'm going to level with you, that response would probably not be acceptable for any consumer let alone any developer. To most people it might give the impression that you are not in possession of a business license. That would be my inclination anyhow.

At any rate, every country has a system of business licensing, those license classification guidelines also bear relevancy on the legal liability of the business. Clearly your response indicates that you have not incorporated your business, so you are most likely 100% responsible for any liability related to your service, licensed or not. It doesn't matter if you have a disclaimer, disclaimers are in no way a protection against liability. Not at all. Obviously the vast bulk of successful product liability lawsuits are against people who had disclaimers in place.

At the very least you definitely need to read up on the laws governing your business. You are subject to those laws as are your clients, not knowing them puts you in the position of not being able to assure anyone of anything...

Corey Milner
Creative Director, Indigo Rose Software (http://www.indigorose.com)

[Intrigued]

Ok, Corey, your my lawyer, that's that! :yes

I learned a thing or four myself!

[SUF6NEWBIE]

What would be your fees scale Corey
would you charge by the 'pixel' , 'byte' or by the 'bit' or 'dB' ?!

[JimS]

mugurel,
About a month or so ago, I downloaded and installed about a dozen pieces of shareware, trying to find something to answer another forum members question. In the process, my browser got high-jacked. I’ve used Norton’s, Adaware, and a few more, (shout out to Worm for turning me on to another, that found other Trojans, but not the one I was after).
I guess it is still too new for the definition updates on these things.

I do see a future in the, for lack of a better term, ‘trusted computing’ space. After people get infected with spyware, or Trojans, a few times, they may certainly start looking for more security assurance. It looks like you might be heading in the right direction, I don’t know.

Some of Corey’s critique was brutal. It’s obvious that you have spent effort and time in building your site. Corey’s words were harsh, but honest, painfully honest. It hurts to get slugged in the stomach that hard. It can knock the wind right out of you.

The way I see it, it leaves about three options.

1. You could get ****ed off, figure that some of us just don’t understand, and go with what you have. That’s cool, it’s your choice. You don’t have to leave the forums, we all still like you.

2. You could take a long hard look at all that is going to be involved with really getting this off the ground, and figure ‘screw it’, it’s not worth the effort. Been there, done that. When you take chances, there is always the chance that you’ll head down the wrong path. I think they call this plan, ‘cutting bait’.

3. You could take a long hard look at all that is going to be involved with really getting this off the ground, and start addressing the challenges one by one. It’s likely to be a hard row to hoe. Even if you go the extra mile, and do everything right, there’s still no promise that you’ll make enough money each month to put bread on the table. Such is the life of the professional gambler, the entrepreneur. Who knows, a person just might figure out a way to make it all come together and work. That’s the lure of ‘semi’–free market capitalism.

Whatever you decide to do, I’m rooting for you. It sounds like Corey is too. At the moment, while you are still feeling the sting, it might not feel like it, but I can assure you that there was no malice, and it wasn’t a personal attack. You asked a straight question, and Corey gave you his straight opinions. Remember too, that Corey’s opinions are just that, opinions, albeit honest ones. It’s tough to find people who will be completely honest, even if honest is ugly. You can hire a consultant, but many of them will be inclined to flatter you, so they can keep their gig.

This reminds me of a little story. Years ago, I was repeatedly put into the position that every husband knows too well. Every time my wife would try on a pair of slack, shorts, or skirt, she would always turn to me and ask if they made her butt look big. :eek:

These days, I might be single, and end up sleeping most nights alone, but my ex-wife still has a fat butt. :lol

The moral of this story is that I probably won’t be asking you how my butt looks, I’ve always made it a strict rule to never date guys who wear ties. But, if I ever do ask your opinion on something, I hope that you will express your true and honest opinions, else it’s just a waist of time and energy. I sit in front of the computer so much that my butt is usually numb, so I probably wouldn’t notice if someone was kissing it anyway. ;)

Cheers!

[Corey]

Dom Irrera says he tells his wife, "The butt? No, the butt's fine, it's those great big bones which are killing you..."

P.S. I charge by the nostril, fifth one's free.

As to the topic in general, here's the wrinkle. The "trust computing" space is about relationships, personalities, and connections. The amount of resources and skill required to penetrate that from the outside are phenomenal. Certainly not within the reach of an individual. That being said, nothing is impossible and you can do anything you decide to you if you really want to. I'm always rooting for entrepreneurial people to succeed, and I definitely respect people who try new things.

Corey Milner
Creative Director, Indigo Rose Software (http://www.indigorose.com)

[JimS]

Actually, I don’t really know what my ex-wife’s fanny looks like. I haven’t seen her in 15 years or so. To be fair about it, during the years I knew her, she had a nice body. I’ve never fully understood why those cuffed-leg sailor shorts made her look like Nell Carter, but they did. Oh well, it’s someone else’s problem now.

I used the story about my ex-wife, because ex-wife jokes are funny. For the money a fella’ spends on them, they should be. Besides, my parable illustrating the notion to ‘be careful what you ask for, you just might get it’ takes a lot longer to tell. Although it does help explain why most people think I’m a big di** head.

[mugurel]

I was actually touched about all you guys oppinions, HONEST oppinions, thank you for your time and for Corey's ones :P

Corey is right about legal part so this made me to get a counselor into this liability matter and see how can I handle it. I'm sure that if a user is notified about the use of a service/product terms and the user still proceeds with it's use then I'm sure I can't be held responsible.

JimS: Well, you are right about honest oppinions and I KNEW that I will get honest oppinions when I asked, because I had been watching this forum for some time and I got an idea about guys here and this is the right place :)

A big THANK YOU !!! I will ask your oppinions in the future for sure because honest oppinions matter most, no matter how good or harsh are they !

[Lorne]

One quick impression I woud add -- just from the perspective of that first page's readability -- the justified text in the columns looks pretty bad and is hard to read (at least with my browser window maximized to 1152x864).

Justified text in general is a bad idea anyway...it's harder to read and generally leads to silly-looking "rivers of whitespace" through the text.

As for the validity of the service, I wouldn't pay for anything like that myself, so I don't have much of an opinion about it. It seems like it's not a bad idea, but I get the feeling it would be perceived as absolutely useless until it reached some kind of critical mass.

The fact that the thread has generated some discussion tells me there might be the seed of a good idea in there somewhere.

I'm not a big fan of the idea of certificates in general, though. I'm not sure if it's that I don't trust 'em (I like to make my own mind up, thank you) or just that they're an annoying distraction cluttering up the stuff I'm actually interested in. It's like all the silly web site awards that sprung up during the boom...maybe one or two of them had merit, but sites listing all these awards with silly names that you've never heard before did themselves a disservice more than anything. Made 'em look like they were trying too hard to impress, instead of just being impressive, if you catch my drift.

[Corey]

Agreed, awards are for the birds.

Corey Milner
Creative Director, Indigo Rose Software (http://www.indigorose.com)

[kpsmith]

If you want to be taken seriously get rid of the "that wasn't chicken" image. I've seen that too many times elsewhere for me to take the site seriously.

As far as the business model. Well, I definately say I'm sick of all the spyware but ....

It reminds me too of the Microsoft Certified driver approach and if Microsoft can't get large businesses to apply for that and users still install non-certified drivers anyway....

[Corey]

I think kpsmith *really* hit it on the head there with his last sentence, big time.

Corey Milner
Creative Director, Indigo Rose Software (http://www.indigorose.com)

[Intrigued]

The pricing structure reminds me of Microsoft's charges for driver certification, costly.

My first post in the thread. Sounds like a consensus! ;)

[mugurel]

Well I agree with the image and I am amused about Microsoft one, well, what can I say :)

I definatelly haven't tought my business trough Microsoft policy perspective, but is perceived the bad side so I will consider explaining the benefits more so they see the value.

I really really appreciate your guys ! A huge thank you ! I always appreciated constructive oppinions such as all these.

[Corey]

I will consider explaining the benefits more so they see the value.

Nice. Very magnanimous! :yes

Corey Milner
Creative Director, Indigo Rose Software (http://www.indigorose.com)