Cool idea for music Indies [Archive] - Indigo Rose Software Forums

Corey

04-30-2004, 01:52 PM

The recording industry would never allow that, and even if they did, no performer on earth would permit it for myriad reasons... For most performers nowadays the live show represents them at their very worst. They much prefer the highly controllable environments of the studio and video shoot. The very last thing Mariah Carey wants you to see is her live, take for example her famous public meltdown, i.e. the famous "I just want ice cream and rainbows" lecture. No agent on earth would expose their artists to that. :)

Besides, the techonology to do this has already been around for many years. For example there's a guy here who will do a recording of your live show for $200. He looks a little skinny if you know what I mean. :)

Their quote, "The understanding is also that it is not a one-time recording. Fans can share the files with their friends" doesn't reflect the views of the bands, that's the fundamental flaw. As far as I know it would be highly illegal for a bar to install that unless they specifically have a record contract with every single artist which covers release, rights, and distribution... That wouldn't be feasible for any bar to do. I see they say it's in one bar already, but that will lead to litigation given a little time.

Then the issue of cover tunes comes in, considering most live shows are all cover tunes and cannot be legally recorded for distribution...

Corey Milner
Creative Director, Indigo Rose Software (http://www.indigorose.com)

JimS

05-05-2004, 07:57 AM

We sure have vastly different perspectives on this.

The recording industry would never allow that,

I completely agree with that, except I understood that this service was for ‘unsigned’ talent.

and even if they did, no performer on earth would permit it for myriad reasons... For most performers nowadays the live show represents them at their very worst.

Maybe, but most musicians, both signed and unsigned, make most of their money playing gigs. I think session players and dead musicians are about the only ones that make more from record and CD royalties, than they do on the road.

They much prefer the highly controllable environments of the studio and video shoot.

Sure, and they would all like to drive around Cadillacs too, (with Hip Hop artists preferring ‘pimped up’ Cadillacs). I think that studio time with a good engineer, and a video crew, to shoot a couple music videos, still requires an investment that is a little beyond most bands that play nightclubs.

The very last thing Mariah Carey wants you to see is her live, take for example her famous public meltdown, i.e. the famous "I just want ice cream and rainbows" lecture.

You make a good point here. I think that Mariah Cary, Lord bless her, may be the only living recording artist that makes more money from record royalties, than from touring.

Then again, when you have a couple back to back multi platinum albums, and sleep with the Boss (ex-husband Tommy Mottola). It shouldn’t be too surprising that she was able to sign a peach of a contract. Didn’t Sony drop her like a hot pancake when she ‘flaked out’, and buy her out of her remaining contract?

Oh yeah! let’s not forget David Lee Roth, he probably fits in this category of living artists who make more from royalties. :lol

No agent on earth would expose their artists to that.

The Grateful Dead’s agent did. In the couple of years before Jerry Garcia died, the Dead where the highest grossing road show in the US.

Besides, the techonology to do this has already been around for many years. For example there's a guy here who will do a recording of your live show for $200. He looks a little skinny if you know what I mean.

I see a different set of economics here. If you hire the guy for $200, you get what? An analog cassette and a CD-ROM at the end of the show? This system requires no ‘up front’ fees for the performer. The kiosk and the bar owner take care of that. Plus, it handles all of the distribution. I think that quite a few of the nightclub musicians I have met, might figure, “if it don’t sell, then what the heck, they ain’t out anything.” If some do sell, then they just might make a little extra beer money for the night. And have a few fans out there playing their music.

Well, you know musicians, they’re usually a bit more grandiose than that. :p

Their quote, "The understanding is also that it is not a one-time recording. Fans can share the files with their friends" doesn't reflect the views of the bands, that's the fundamental flaw.

You might be right; however, I think that there is a whole school of thought, which believes that encouraging fans to freely pass around, their songs, especially some of the early recordings, can help drive people to their shows, where they make the lion’s share of their profits. Janis Ian is one such artist. She might not have been inducted into the Hall of Fame, but with a couple of Top 40 hits to her name, she’s achieved more than most lounge bands ever will.

I readily preach this view to any that will hear. My logic is that if the fondest dreams of these acts came true, and they were discovered by a big recording executive, and signed on the spot, they wouldn’t make a plug nickel off of any of the recordings on their first three albums. That might be a harsh reality, but for the most part it’s true.

I suggest that instead of just dreaming about getting raped by a recording company, they take a proactive approach and give their music to as many different people as the can. Build the fan base.

Perhaps I’m irrational.

As far as I know it would be highly illegal for a bar to install that unless they specifically have a record contract with every single artist which covers release, rights, and distribution... That wouldn't be feasible for any bar to do.

I think that a boilerplate contract or two could probably fit most lounge performers.

I see they say it's in one bar already, but that will lead to litigation given a little time.

I have to completely agree with you here. Here in the US, anyone can bring suit against anyone else, for any reason, and eventually usually does. :huh

Then the issue of cover tunes comes in, considering most live shows are all cover tunes and cannot be legally recorded for distribution...

If you own a bar with live music in the US, then you are already making payments to ASCAP and or BMI. If the kiosk can make it easy for the bar owner to figure proper payments, and puts a few extra dollars in his pocket, then some of them might be interested.

As for ASCAP, and BMI, I think that as log as they get their cut, you are good to go. I think that this is just part of the deal that you make when you list your song with ASCAP or BMI, you agree what percentage of the royalties go to each of the performers, and to the writers, then as long as a person pays the proper royalties, they can play their own versions of the song. Why else would we be able to buy recordings of William Hung singing ‘She Bangs’? I mean, Mr. Hung’s rendition is certainly entertaining, but he’s no Ricky Martin. (I never imagined that I’d ever be defending Ricky Martin). Furthermore, which of us haven’t heard the Muzak version of “Eleanor Rigsby”, or the ringtone version of some other famous tune? Surely “No agent on earth would expose their artists to that.” :p

I don’t have any idea whether these kiosks will ever take off and become popular or not. If pressed, I’d have to guess not, seems the statistically safest bet.

I just thought that this was a fairly cool use of technology. I also feel that while this may not be the vehicle to make it, that eventually it will become all the fad for fans to trade in new music, from unsigned or ‘underground’ bands, and do it legally. I hope so.