Maintenace Plan....Where are the NEW features ????

[mwreyf1]

I have question that has been bothering me for a while now.

Where are all of the NEW features that IR said we would get when we signed on with the new "Maintenace Plan" way of purchasing AMS.

There are SO MANY simple things that could have been added by now to at least pasify us, but NOTHING has been done for 4 months now.

That is way too long in my opinion based off of how IR said it would work.

IR....I want my promised updates\new features.

[Bruce]

oh boy here we go! but... I have to agree, they are sloooow coming :rolleyes

[mwreyf1]

Let me rephrase part of my first thread. They were not PROMISED updates\features...They were PART OF A CONTRACT between IR and myself when I purchased the AMS 7 product.

[ShadowUK]

Mine has expired.. baw..

[RizlaUK]

oh boy here we go!

lol, 2nd thread on the subject in as many days

i wouldent expect an update just yet, i do remember IR saying they are working on another *top secret* project and will revisit AMS after it has been released, sure that was only 2 or 3 months ago

[mwreyf1]

Having to work on a new secret product does not release them from their obligations to fulfill the contract they made with each and every one of us who purchased AMS 7.

AMS is the only product I use from IR, so that is the one that concerns me.

I purchased 8 licenses of AMS 7 based off of their implied commitment to releasing ongoing updates and features to the application.

That is NOT happening.

[ShadowUK]

lol, 2nd thread on the subject in as many days

i wouldent expect an update just yet, i do remember IR saying they are working on another *top secret* project and will revisit AMS after it has been released, sure that was only 2 or 3 months ago

Setup Factory 8

[mwreyf1]

When Setup Factory can do everything that InstallShield does, I might take another look at it.

[holtgrewe]

AMS is the only product I use from IR, so that is the one that concerns me.


My post was a liitle more subtle than yours, but we all have an investment in AMS and would definately like to know "What is going on".

Most of the activity I've seen since the AMS 7 release has been some dazzling DLLs and Plugins from the Forum gurus. These are great, mind you, but could/should be part of the native product. The pure developers get tired of waiting for IR to deliver, so they do it themselves, then gratiously offer if to the forum. I think it's time for IR to step up to the plate and deliver.

[RizlaUK]

These are great, mind you, but could/should be part of the native product.

the problem i see there is rights, is it ok for IR to sell a plugin bundled with AMS that was origianly offerd for free, i know the plugin is no good without the IDE but IR would need to buy the rights to any user plugins that they bundle with AMS or any other IR app, tho it would be nice to have all those extra objects and functions, why reinvent the wheel, those plugins are already avalable to anyone that knows how to use the forum search page,

i tought the grid update was a little dissapointing as it offerd nothing new to AMS, it just changed the way 1 plugin works and also caused a few headaches if i remember right.

id rather see brand new objects/functions, altho AMS has a grid i would still like to see ListIcon box (multy column listbox), the abilty to load images from memory to a image object, native child window support, .. well, i could go on all night, the point is, new not reinvent



The pure developers get tired of waiting for IR to deliver, so they do it themselves, then gratiously offer if to the forum.

and a massive THANK YOU to all those involved.

[Mihaly]

Yep the clock is still ticking!

check out this post.
http://www.indigorose.com/forums/showthread.php?p=111817#post111817

what has changed since then... It looks like we will need to renew our Subscription last quarter again... More year-end bonus for somebody.

[RizlaUK]

well i think the game plan is obvious, any comapnys main goal is to maximize profit, im sure IR made a few extra quid from the AMS7 and it will be a returning income for the product .. .. or not

IMO, if a company is going to charge a subscription for updates then they should have a dedacated team that work on just the product at hand and the users/customers will feel they have had there moneys worth

but, its still early IMO, IR still have time to pull some tricks out of the hat, i guess it all depends on what the user is after, i would be happy with one thing where someone else would be happy with something else, i dont think IR can keep us all happy all of the time, its just not doable

[cgirolet]

i share the point of view of many users around here i'm using ams since version 2.0 and i must admit that i do think that indigo rose surely put ams aside, they surely prefer develop other product such as setup factory, i do miss real ehancements (such as image manipulation command wich i asked far before 7.0 went out) the grid and other plugin added in the latest release was just released for free as many other plugins (pity for those like me who payed them before) but there is no real new features as we had before when we changed version. and yes indigo rose made us promise that the money we gave them by buying ams 7 will support the future development of ams, so where are the features ? for know i count more on dlls released by third party developper (thanks to them) and if the things continue to go that way i will not renew my subscription coz i wont pay another year waiting for indigo rose to finish their secret project (unless it's ams 8.0) before working seriously on ams again, i would be sad to do such things coz i liked ams but for now i got nothing but some promises and cheap updates for the money i gave to them

[RizlaUK]

when IR announced the new subscription method for AMS7 they said there will be no AMS8, 7 will be the final version and there will be no major version released only updates,

with that said, i have to agree with your point >> "i must admit that i do think that indigo rose surely put ams aside" <<

guess its up to IR now to settle the natives a little.

[HMMurdock]

Really guys? They have released AMS6 and AMS7 since SF7 was released. That's not two updates, that is two entire versions that have been released since SF7 was released (I'm not sure of the exact date) about 4 years ago.

I don't have a maintenance agreement with IR but I have been responsible for negotiating software maintenance contracts in the the past, and I have never seen one that promised a specific number of updates, or any at all. They simply obligate the software provider to keep your product current for the duration of the contract.

[Intrigued]

It would be nice to see some of the dozens of suggestions put forth since AMS 7's release implemented.

1) Child(ren) window(s)
2) icon/image enabled Combobox
3) Build-for-web

for starters...

At the end of the day... new features, versions of a product translate in a surge in sales, most often anyway.

[yosik]

It would also be nice to see a response from someone at IR....
In my experience, a lot of time, complains may be assaged if some light could be shed on what is going on behind the scene.
I, for one, am sure that IR is "doing something" with AMS. But, I think, it is important for us, the users, to know a little about it.

Yossi

[eric_darling]

Let's be fair to IR, folks. It IS the weekend, after all. They won't let a thread like this just languish for too long. Let them have a weekend.

In any case, I seem to recall that the cost for a full software upgrade was a fair bit more than what they are charging for the annual maintenance plan. I'm not sure I like the license model, since I'm a "buy" rather than a "lease" sort of guy when it comes to software. And, they seem to be inviting a fair amount of criticism, which at this point is probably premature, so that can't be their objective. But, their license is fair. We can continue to use the software locked at its current version if we lapse on the maintenance plan. That's a fair shake, IMO.

[ShadowUK]

I'm sure the update will be awesome, We just have to wait a bit.

[pakapaka]

... I get strong feeling of deja vu.

Back in the mid 1990s a product called Gold Disk Astound was used by many multimedia developers as an alternative to Director. Then came Demoshield which reached end-of-life a couple of years ago. Oh yes and lets not forget Authoware (bought by Macromedia and then put out dry).

... I remember the the lack of new features in the last versionsof these products. I also remeber the complaints by users and of course the SILENCE of the software manufacturers. Although it took several months, all of these products got sent to the graveyard.

Based on my experience and the silence by IR management, perhaps I should be looking for an alternative development tool, one that has a clear, long term roadmap?

BTW anybody tried Adobe Flex yet????

Pakapaka

[RizlaUK]

... I remember the the lack of new features in the last versionsof these products. I also remeber the complaints by users and of course the SILENCE of the software manufacturers. Although it took several months, all of these products got sent to the graveyard.

Based on my experience and the silence by IR management, perhaps I should be looking for an alternative development tool, one that has a clear, long term roadmap?

Never, AMS is IR's flag ship product, they kill it off then IR are finished IMO

IR will respond when thay have something to say i guess and like eric says, it is the weekend, just cos we/i work all dam weekend dosent mean IR do.

theres only one thing i want from AMS right now (child window support) so i can stop having to use PB just to make a settings dialog or about box, anything else that AMS can not do i will just continue to work around like i always have done.

[mwreyf1]

My original thread was to get a general consensus from all other interested parties as to the current state of AMS and it's upgrade model.

I myself have LOTS on my AMS wish list (SQlite 3.x support for one).

I don't expect IR to please everyone. That is impossible.

My point was that there have been NO upgrades to please anyone. Not 1.

Can someone please tell me what has been added since the original release of version 7?

[RizlaUK]

the grid object was added after the inital release of AMS7, but dose this count as a new object ?

[Yvon Robert]

Hi,
Curiously check evolution between IR and MMB software (Multi Media Builder). Check the poor quality training movie on YouTube and the slow IR development. How long do you think that the same story like DemoShield happen to IR?
REgards,
YR

[pakapaka]

The Demoshield saga went on for approx 18 months. It was finally killed when Macrovision bought Installshield AND when Vista was released. At least AMS is Vista compliant (hopefully), which means we can still get some use out of AMS 7 in the near future.

The fact that AMS is the IR flagship product is completely irrelevent. The main concern here is the ability of IR to survive as a company in such a competitive market. Given the silence from IR senior managment, it definately looks like they have decided to take the same road as Demoshield, Astound and Authorware. This means, dont expect anything substantial in the feature department and dont expect a formal response by IR until they have prepared their End of Life Press Release.

I like AMS.....so lets hope I will be proven wrong.

Pakapaka

[eric_darling]

Contrary to many software companies, I've found that IR likes to unofficially take the weekend off. They don't typically enter comments in threads on holidays or weekends. I say good on them! Life shouldn't be spent always seated firmly in front of keyboard and monitor - even for software developers. Some of us might best be advised to do the same.

Having been a long-time customer and advocate of theirs, I see no reason to begin any rumors of their demise at this point in time. They have several successful products beyond AMS (some of which are not even found on their web site), and comparing IR to any other software development company past or present is an exercise in wasting one's time. In my years of experience with them, the folks at IR have always been straight-shooters, and I think any long-time forum participant will attest to that.

I think it's interesting that Yvon Robert is comparing MMB favorably against AMS. Their web site is a flat-out mess. From what I can tell, their "new" features have pretty much been part of AMS for a couple of versions now. So, the "evolution" you are referring to is mostly MMB playing catch-up, or even just unashamedly copying AMS. Imitation is, after all, the sincerest form of flattery, right?

[cgirolet]

maybe that IR is thinking that as long as there will be some genius third party developper to give us great dlls for free, they won't have to do their job (wich is adding real features from version to version) two majors version since sf7 went out ! what a joke ams 6 was really a real new version compared to what ams 6 added to ams 5, ams7 didn't add much things, if you except three things (rtf, radio buttons and check boxes) other ones was just a compilation of already released plugins, if am7 is really the very last version planned by indigo rose, that's pity ! i do know that IR is capable of doing great things they've proven that many times in the past, maybe they're developping too many softwares at the same time and some like ams are then left behind others. it would be good if the staff is giving us hints about ams future (if there is any) keeping everything secret isn't a good thing on a long period of time, for me the future isn't bright, com on guys give us something to re assure us.

[RizlaUK]

I say good on them! Life shouldn't be spent always seated firmly in front of keyboard and monitor - even for software developers. Some of us might best be advised to do the same.

to right, i work on my pc in the eve's and at weekends because programing is my 2nd job, i get small bits n pices but not enough to keep my family so building is (still) my main source of income, time off is a rare thing for me, since all that nastyness that happend in my last flat with the sewage iv been flatout trying to rebuild our lives again, but if i sat at a pc all week then i most certanly would not at the weekend.

AMS is NOT finished, not by far, its already been mentioned that IR are working on another product and WILL return to AMS in due time.

MMB, is a nice little tool, but plz dont compair it to AMS, its not even close.

[HMMurdock]

maybe that IR is thinking that as long as there will be some genius third party developper to give us great dlls for free, they won't have to do their job (wich is adding real features from version to version) two majors version since sf7 went out ! what a joke ams 6 was really a real new version compared to what ams 6 added to ams 5, ams7 didn't add much things, if you except three things (rtf, radio buttons and check boxes) other ones was just a compilation of already released plugins, if am7 is really the very last version planned by indigo rose, that's pity ! i do know that IR is capable of doing great things they've proven that many times in the past, maybe they're developping too many softwares at the same time and some like ams are then left behind others. it would be good if the staff is giving us hints about ams future (if there is any) keeping everything secret isn't a good thing on a long period of time, for me the future isn't bright, com on guys give us something to re assure us.

Really? So you want to complain about features added instead of version numbers? Okay. Lets compare the features that have been added to the AMS line and the SF line over the past 3 years. Show me the long list of functionality and features that have been added to SF, because I'm pretty sure its going to be a much shorter list that what has been added to AMS.

I also notice that you were complaining in previous threads that even though some objects were available as plugins, you were unsatisfied becasue you thought they should be integrated anyway. Now that they are integrated, you dismiss them since they were already available as plugins before. You can't have it both ways.


but for now i got nothing but some promises and cheap updates which I find very interesting when looking at some of your other posts...

of course i will return the favor (to help other forum users) evertime i canand since that post you haven't done anything except complain about features that you would like to have but aren't available, or are available but not integrated, or are integrated, but not to your liking...

It's kinda hard to take your criticisms seriously when you keep redefining your expectations.

AMS is clearly the most updated product in the IR family over the past several years. Heaven forbid, you folks have to go a month or two without a bunch of additional features while they try to work on something else. Sheeesh. :rolleyes

[Worm]

Come on... I've been hangin' with AMS since ver3. IR has *never* let me down, nor will they. You are dealing with a company that takes great pride in their software and customer base. If you *own* AMS, I'm 100% sure you have nothing to worry about.

[mwreyf1]

This thread has gone WAY out of scope.

How did we get to discussing AMS's demise? I don't believe for a second that that will happen.

My original thread was only referring to "AMS 7" and it's lack of getting new features added to it as IR had explained would happen. Maybe I'm wrong for thinking\expecting a feature be added more than just one time since it's original release.

And I know IR is busy with other products, but as I said before that is not my concern. They did not say that IF they had time they would add new features. As my dad used to say "Don't bite off more than you can chew!".
It sounds to like IR has bitten off too much"

[RizlaUK]

How did we get to discussing AMS's demise? I don't believe for a second that that will happen.

neither do i, why would any company dump a producd as successful as AMS, updates will come, and if IR carry one with there past history then i beleave the next update will be well worth the wait, and as for forthcoming information . . i kinda like supprizes.


"Don't bite off more than you can chew!".

very good advice, but i tend to often do that.

[cgirolet]

1 ) i won't compare features added to sf7 coz i don't own/use it so i don't follow it's update process in detail,

2) i just meant that before ams7 the features that were added in each new version of ams were in my opinion bigger in term of functionality than the ones added to ams7, yes i like the fact that ams7 is integrating more things in standard than ams6 nobody would contest that, but integrating plugins in standard is not like developping new things, i am conscient that it is not easy at all, but indigo rose has proven that they are very talented, for me ams7 is (for now) looking more like ams6.5 in a way,

i just want to say that i do hope that the futures updates will continue, if there is a future to ams, and if there is something cool in it, i will be in line to upgrade.

coz despite what you seems to think about me i do love this software it helped me in many situations, this is why i don't wanna see him die, as many other users, i would like to see tons of updates and new features added (and yes maybe i'm demanding too much) and i would be sad to see it's development abandonned or reduced

as i said before, I would like IR to give us some hints about what they're cooking for ams (even if it's a brand new software), oh i don't want a full feature list of course, just a few lines from them in the forum from time to time

voila, i have nothing more to say, don't think i'm bitter coz i'm not, just worried about the future of a software i love

claude

[Mark]

Hi Everyone,

We've been watching this thread and I just wanted to make a quick comment before anything got out of hand.

I don't know when the specifics will be announced, but I can say that some of us our indeed working on AMS right now. In fact I had to pull myself away from the code just write this post.

To paraphrase Mr. Twain “Rumours of Autoplay's demise have been greatly exaggerated...”

[Bruce]

There ya have it! :yes

[reteset]

just i want to write some comments,

you want more features but you want a small exe .
you want custom features which available only latest windows os
but you want to run your application on Windows 98.

Auto Play Media Studio is a very complex program
and updating it may take a long time

if you want to run your application within a large OS scope
you have to miss some features
this is a static rule of programming

of course i am waiting some features from IR (like popup window)
but i now that it may take a long time and new features
must be in some terms
for example : IR have to save to large os scope before add a new feature

i want to save large OS scope of my final products
i want to run on Windows 98 yet :yes

thank you

[Colin]

OK folks, I just got back from the dentist after being away for the weekend, but I wanted to address this issue right away:

We are actively developing AutoPlay Media Studio at this very moment.

Yes, we have been extremely busy working on all of our products - not just AutoPlay Media Studio. Since last summer there have been major new version releases of TrueUpdate, Visual Patch and most recently MSI Factory 2.0. Next up is a MAJOR new release of Setup Factory 8.0 (by the end of July). It's been a ton of work, but we're committed to making sure that all of our customers are working with excellent products - not just our AutoPlay Media Studio customers.

That being said, our AutoPlay Media Studio customers are our favorites :)

We are working on a very important update to AutoPlay Media Studio right now, which will introduce the concept of fully customizable popup dialog boxes. The intent is to make AutoPlay Media Studio capable of rapidly building full software applications - taking it beyond the single screen interface that you're currently restricted to. I'd love to elaborate and tell you about more, but I can't right now. We try and get in as many enhancements and features as we can, but I know we can't please everyone. But we try...

That being said, I apologize personally for the delay.

I'm always amazed to see how loyal our customers are, and how a little speculation can create such a heated debate! Thanks for keeping us on our toes... We'll keep doing our best to earn your business and prove to you that our products are the best out there.

Sincerely,

Colin Adams, President
Indigo Rose Software

[Dermot]

We are working on a very important update to AutoPlay Media Studio right now, which will introduce the concept of fully customizable popup dialog boxes.
That is fantastic! That will make a lot of people including me very very happy. I certainly don't mind a bit of a wait for that.

Thanks for letting us know what is happening.


That being said, our AutoPlay Media Studio customers are our favorites
I knew it. :)

[RizlaUK]

That is fantastic! That will make a lot of people including me very very happy.

and me to, thats great news, i get my one AMS wish :yes

[pakapaka]

Well done Colin....your message is all we needed.
I reckon your decision to send out a personal message to your loyal customers was far less painful than your visit to the dentist.

You should try it again sometime.....we like this kind of response, it keeps us informed and helps us to plan ahead.

Yours
A Satisfied Customer

[mwreyf1]

Thank you for the reply.

I can't wait to see what's coming.

The popup dialog will be a great addition to the app.

Now we can all stop wondering whats going on.

We have been informed. :)

[Radioguy]

Funny I just downloaded the latest patch for 7 this morning. Okay, its not the latest update but low and behold I find out there are more goodies coming around the bend that sound pretty darned exciting.

Thanks IR staff for the update on...er...an update.:yes

[SteevieNiteHeat]

Maybe IR should be more concerned about THIS!! [removed link to pirate site]

What are they going to do about it?
After all, what with people making cracks for AMS and offering it for free, why bother paying?

Me, I'm a long-term LEGAL user of AMS 6, I see no reason to fork out a shed load of cash for small features, and also I have used the AMS 7 trial, but I will not be upgrading in the future as I have found Clarion from TopSpeed is much better & easier to use

[rexzooly]

Maybe IR should be more concerned about [link removed]

What are they going to do about it?
After all, what with people making cracks for AMS and offering it for free, why bother paying?

Me, I'm a long-term LEGAL user of AMS 6, I see no reason to fork out a shed load of cash for small features, and also I have used the AMS 7 trial, but I will not be upgrading in the future as I have found Clarion from TopSpeed is much better & easier to use

Hacked versions are very limited why limite your self no hacked verion
will update no hack version is supported via IR so why use hacked software,
I agree why pay when you can get the samething free but its not the samething for free I don't program much anymore but IR is the only platform i would use.

I am not good with VS so i love the AMS GUI and easyer to make programs
to as it alraedy includes all the codes for the forum/windows and lua its self
it would be harder for me.

Also almost all Hacked versions some with virse or add ware or malaware.
Also fack versions come out that get info off your computer so thats why
you play for it.

[SteevieNiteHeat]

Hacked versions are very limited why limite your self no hacked verion
will update no hack version is supported via IR so why use hacked software,
I agree why pay when you can get the samething free but its not the samething for free I don't program much anymore but IR is the only platform i would use.

I am not good with VS so i love the AMS GUI and easyer to make programs
to as it alraedy includes all the codes for the forum/windows and lua its self
it would be harder for me.

Also almost all Hacked versions some with virse or add ware or malaware.
Also fack versions come out that get info off your computer so thats why
you play for it.

Hey, im not saying I use suck crack versions of software, i do not!
I believe in supporting programmers & the people that can create such wonderful software, just thought that it should be bought to the attention of IR cos I know if I'd spent infinate hrs of making something to sell then some scumbucket ripped it off & cracked I'd be major hissed!

if I cannot afford a product or dont think it is for me, I dont use it simple!
I cannot stand people that think they can get a free ride while other, hard working people have to suffer cos of them morons out there!

[Intrigued]

Thanks Mark, Colin for the update.

FYI, I've tried to get my employer to use your company's installer. Oh... the headaches with the other "big named" installers we have had. I purchased SF 7.0, what last year was it... and it's never failed me. I believe the MSI version would be what our corporation would be best served by, if I could only get them to "see the light".

*sigh*

I'll try again this year.

[Bruce]

"Maybe IR should be more concerned about THIS!! [removed link to pirate site]" "long time user" Hummm :wow Makes one wonder why you were cruzing the pirate sites.

[Dermot]

The intent is to make AutoPlay Media Studio capable of rapidly building full software applications - taking it beyond the single screen interface that you're currently restricted to.
That is music to my ears.

[cgirolet]

now i'm happy, coz there will be a future for ams and it will be great to have this new feature, so Colin without revealing secrets of course, give us a little post from time to time,like you just did, to tell us where you are on the roadmap, it's simple and it makes us smile in anticipation.

[bule]

The intent is to make AutoPlay Media Studio capable of rapidly building full software applications - taking it beyond the single screen interface that you're currently restricted to.

This sounds very promising.

However, when you say "rapidly building full software applications", do you include business software applications as well (aka database aware grids with objects such as checkboxes and lookups embeded, easy editable SQL datasets and queryies (non visible objects that grids can hook up to), database connectivity, basic graph generation support, report generators, a lot of events on all of those and so on), or do you mean only general purpose user applications (aka custom audio players, presentations on steroids, notepad emulators, advanced menus and so on)?

Among other thing that were said, one of the problems with APMS is that it's applications are just too-mouse dependant. For example, button... you can not use it with a keyboard like you can do in just about any other development environment (tab to it). The other problem are events: there should be plenty of events around the environment. On Key, On Mouse, On Focus, On Exit (or lose focus, whatever) are a must have on all components, especially on grids. On Before Post for database related objects are also a must-have.

And yes, page events... they simply must capture all events of the windowed objects such as input boxes and listboxes as well as they capture those for non-windowed ones. You can not expect that we code the same functionality (aka F5 for Save or similar) on all components' On Key events on the page (put a call to our function), instead on just the Page's On Key event. This is absurd.

Other than that and all the rest that was mentioned, I'm really glad to hear that the child window support is about to see the light in the APMS world. This will definitely prolong it's life and open new possibilities. Thumbs up for that!

[Dermot]

do you include business software applications as well (aka database aware grids with objects such as checkboxes and lookups embeded, easy editable SQL datasets and queryies (non visible objects that grids can hook up to), database connectivity, basic graph generation support, report generators, a lot of events on all of those and so on),
I think that is a tall ordere for the next update. You can build full business database applications with AMS as it is. I have been doing it for 4 years now. I wouldn't expect them to implement a report engine when you an use powerfull third party ones like Fast Report. Data aware components would be nice but they are not required. I like the flexibilty of coding your own data display.

A more powerfull modern grid is what is really needed. The current one is from the stone age as far as grids go. I have one from DevExpress that is 10 years old and it has way more features than the AMS grid.

[bule]

You can build full business database applications with AMS as it is.

You can do it in QuickBasic as well.
How rapidly, well that is a question.

I'm not talking about simple CRUD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Create,_read,_update_and_delete) applications with several database tables; I'm talking about multiple master-detail(s) relationships on one page with data lookups and all the fancy stuff. You know, real business apps that increase productivity of the main business. With client-server type of database... Yes, I know you can connect to MySQL and PostgreSQL, I wrote the first guide (http://indigorose.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14878)... ;) The point is, this process should be IR-ifed a bit, you know, the cute IndigoRose way... (and maybe some Codegear flavor on the top of it).

I'm not expecting all that in this update, I'm expecting all that to be in a APMS future path. A close future, for that matter...

[Dermot]

I'm talking about multiple master-detail(s) relationships on one page with data lookups and all the fancy stuff. You know, real business apps that increase productivity of the main business. With client-server type of database...
Yes I am building real business database application including client server and remote access. Estimating, invoicing, scheduling project tracking, reporting the works. You don't need special components to master detail etc.

[mwreyf1]

Yes I am building real business database application including client server and remote access. Estimating, invoicing, scheduling project tracking, reporting the works. You don't need special components to master detail etc.


And your doing ALL of that with NO 3rd party addons, either your own or someone elses?


If so, that's a great accomplishment.

[Dermot]

And your doing ALL of that with NO 3rd party addons, either your own or someone elses?


If so, that's a great accomplishment.
No I never said was not using third party tools. There is no way AMS can do all that without using other components. There are very few developement tools that will do everything. That's why they all have lots of third party add-on componets. Look at Visual Studio .Net, it's 3.5 GB yet there are huge amounts of third party components from grids to reporting tools etc. I took a serious look at VB.Net recently for a project but with all it can do, I would still need most of the third party tools I use with AMS, so I decided to stick with AMS and I have no regrets.

Here are a few of the third party tools I use. These combined cost way more than AMS but no matter what tool I used I would still need to purchase them to get the results I need.

PDF generation and display: http://www.synactis.com/all-in-the-box.htm
Excellent PDF generator that works great in AMS using LuaCOM.

Reporting tool: http://fast-report.com/en/products/report-generator-tool-fastreport-studio.html
This is perfect if you want your end users to be able to modify or create reports. Again works great using LuaCOM.

QuickBooks Integration: http://www.nsoftware.com/ibiz/quickbooks/default.aspx
Fantastic tool that makes integrating your apps with QuickBooks a breeze. Again using LuaCOM.

[Bruce]

Go Dermot go! ;):yes Which reminds me... I need soom more PHP work done

[bule]

So Dermot, you are saying that using FastReport in APMS is a straith forward procedure? No special tricks or custom functions with tedious debugging involved? How do you feed database data to the FastReport? What about technical support from Fast Reports Inc. / IndigoRose?

Remember, we are discusing RAD here!

BTW, as I mentioned before... RAD with no breakpoints? How rapid can you develop something if you can not step trough your code while the application is running?

[azmanar]

Hi Everyone,

Yummy.... smells good from the kitchen. Pulled me out of my hibernation.

Prepared the table now... waiting for IR Chef to deliver some AMS cuisine.

[Dermot]

So Dermot, you are saying that using FastReport in APMS is a straith forward procedure? No special tricks or custom functions with tedious debugging involved? How do you feed database data to the FastReport? What about technical support from Fast Reports Inc. / IndigoRose?

Remember, we are discusing RAD here!

BTW, as I mentioned before... RAD with no breakpoints? How rapid can you develop something if you can not step trough your code while the application is running?
It takes the same amount of code to use Fast Report as it does in VB or anything else. Actually less in some cases.


local fr = luacom.CreateObject("FastReport.TfrxReport")

if fr then
local ReportFile = "PathToReportFile"
fr:LoadReportFromFile(ReportFile)
fr:ShowReport()
end
Yes I know we are talking RAD. I know I can create an app much quicker in AMS than in .Net and end up with a much smaller program with way less overhead. Very few dev tools have built-in reporting for example so using a third party one in AMS is no different than using it with any other tool. The only tool that has a decent report engine is MS Access but there is no way to let your end users modify reports without them having the full version of Access and then you are giving them full access to your app.

I know what I can do with AMS and it works well for me. I have over 10,000 users using my apps so I know it works and I don't have to prove it to anyone.

I agree AMS could be better in a lot of areas but there is very little you can't do with it. I too would like to see better debugging and error handling.

[bule]

But if I am correct, you must manually install FastReport on each client's machine? AFAIK, when used in Delphi for Win32, there are no such dependencies on the target system. Just your .exe and voila.

Also, again, how do you feed data to those reports? It's still looks kinda too cryptic to me... :( If it ain't too much hassle, and to avoid further plaguing of this thread, perhaps you could write us a small how-to guide to use FastReports with APMS in a separate thread. I'm sure many people would appreciate your input.

Back to APMS update... so, can anyone guess on the timing of the release? I would say in somewhere in the September-October time-frame? Others?

[Dermot]

No you don't need to install the full version of Fast Report on the users machine, just include one dll in the installer, just like any other activex control.

I am feeding the data from an Access db, but you can use any ADO compatible db or even use a text file. This is all done in the report designer. You can use parameters which you can then set from AMS to filter the data how you want. The code I posted above is all it takes to preview a report, there is nothing cryptic.

The report files are saved as XML so you have even more control if you need to modify some of the settings from AMS.

[Intrigued]

No you don't need to install the full version of Fast Report on the users machine, just include one dll in the installer, just like any other activex control.

I am feeding the data from an Access db, but you can use any ADO compatible db or even use a text file. This is all done in the report designer. You can use parameters which you can then set from AMS to filter the data how you want. The code I posted above is all it takes to preview a report, there is nothing cryptic.

The report files are saved as XML so you have even more control if you need to modify some of the settings from AMS.

What a great tip, bit of information. Thanks Dermot. Glad to hear that you are having great success with your offerings. That surely is an inspiration to a bunch of folks.

[bule]

You can use parameters which you can then set from AMS to filter the data how you want. The code I posted above is all it takes to preview a report, there is nothing cryptic.

Can you pass these parameters when creating the object?
The same way you pass the path to the xml file?
If yes than that would be awesome!

[Dermot]

Can you pass these parameters when creating the object?
The same way you pass the path to the xml file?
If yes than that would be awesome!

You first create the object, then load the report and then set any variables. When designing reports you can create any number of variables and use them for anything you want such as data sources for labels, as parameters in SQL statements etc. You can then set the value of these variables from AMS before viewing the report.


fr = luacom.CreateObject("FastReport.TfrxReport")

if fr then
fr:LoadReportFromFile("Path To Report File")
fr:SetVariable("Title", "\"Invoice\"")
fr:ShowReport()
end

Here I am setting a variable named Title that is in the report to "Invoice".

[bule]

Okay Dermot, that IS freaking awesome! :yes :yes :yes

But I see that there is no default SQLite ADO Provider in Windows...
Guess I'll have to get one...

[dflowers]

Dermot,

I am very intrigued by your accomplishments with the PDF and Report generation. Is there any chance you would be willing to either put together a couple of examples showing the use of these two products or even better, maybe a short tutorial? I could really use this to help me in a couple of projects I would like to do.

Thanks,

Dorian

[Dermot]

Dermot,

I am very intrigued by your accomplishments with the PDF and Report generation. Is there any chance you would be willing to either put together a couple of examples showing the use of these two products or even better, maybe a short tutorial? I could really use this to help me in a couple of projects I would like to do.

Thanks,

Dorian
I am really swampped with work right now plus these are commercial products and I don't like posting examples that use commercial products. Too many questions and then people don't want to purchase at $300 to $400. Lately people have moaned about excellent plugins for $18 for God's sake.

There is an excellent report engine that is completly free http://reportman.sourceforge.net which I have used in a couple of products and it is fantastic. The main reason I am using Fast Reports now is because it supports RTF text in data fields and formats it correctly. This is something I realy need and Reportman can't do it. Otherwise though Reportman is extremely powerfull and easy to use. If I get some time I will post an example using Reportman.

[yosik]

Hi,
I have been away for a few days and ..WOW! speculations, complains, questions, some answers...it sounds like the Stock Exchange..

Thanks Mark and Colin for your posts. It does give us, the loyal users, a good feeling about what is going on behind the scenes.
I, for one, am waiting for further developments of AMS (still the same name??. I would strongly suggest getting rid of the "Autoplay", too many of those around... "Media Studio (Pro)" sounds short, professional and par with other authoring platforms).
Keep up the good work, guys.

Yossi

[dflowers]

Dermot,

No problem, I fully understand, although I would purchase them if I knew for a fact I personally could figure out how to integrate them. I am the type that learns better by example. That being said, I fully understand where you are coming from. I will take a look at the free product and maybe I can learn how to properly integrate it, then I will look at purchasing the commercial product. Thank you for your reply.

Dorian

[bule]

There is a functional trial of the FastReport Studio that I'm about to try out...

[bule]

Hey, im not saying I use suck crack versions of software, i do not!I believe in supporting programmers & the people that can create such wonderful software, just thought that it should be bought to the attention of IR cos I know if I'd spent infinate hrs of making something to sell then some scumbucket ripped it off & cracked I'd be major hissed!

If I am correct, IR is using Armadillo protection for it's software, which is a rather strong protection that is not so easy to crack and the maintainer of Armadillo is very diligent about making each Armadillo release a bit different and thus harder to crack. In my opinion, there is no reason for IR to go and change the protection scheme, mainly because I am not sure that there are any better protection systems out there at all, at least in the reasonable price/value ratio.

[RizlaUK]

There is an excellent report engine that is completly free http://reportman.sourceforge.net which I have used in a couple of products and it is fantastic. The main reason I am using Fast Reports now is because it supports RTF text in data fields and formats it correctly. This is something I realy need and Reportman can't do it. Otherwise though Reportman is extremely powerfull and easy to use. If I get some time I will post an example using Reportman.

nice, just what i needed without even knowing it, this is perfect for my invoice page, now i just gotter figure out how to use it, lol

ty :yes

[Mihaly]

"I have 75 days left in my maintenance plan subscription." I'm still waiting for the updates... or are you going to wait until the 4Q to release updates after the subscriptions runs out.

[Intrigued]

You got me beat.... I only have 74 days left!

Ack!

I too was hoping for a sizable update this far into the subscription. *kicks dirt*

[bule]

Well that's almost two and a half months from now, it's not that short. And there should be (and most likely will be) an update before your plan expires. It was more than 5 months since the last update, and IR released several other product updates in the meantime, AFAIK it's APMS turn this time! :D

[Radioguy]

Yes the countdown is ticking away on mine too. The last update I only consider bug fixes but a few new features that were mentioned earlier in this thread would be nice before time runs out:eek: