Pretty Dissapointed

[Desolator]

I'm pretty disappointed by the new version. I haven't checked the trial version yet, but just looking into the web help I can see that the most useful and easier to implement features are missing.

Where are the new compression formats? LZMA is implemented into SF for WI, yet it isn't in AMS 7. There are lots of open open formats like tar, bz2, gzip, and many more, but we're still stuck to the obsolete zip format, only because it's "popular". Where is Drag & Drop support on runtime? Most applications on tons of operating systems support it, heck, you could have rewritten the code from Mozilla Firefox, or something similar, there are lots of them out there.

The checkbox & radiobutton objects seem pretty pointless when compared to nifty features like those above. They can be easily implemented with a little code. Also, the RTF object doesn't make much point either. The web object has much more potential because it's basically IE, the web browser. (X)HTML, CSS, JS and a lot more can do way more things than you can ever do in RTF. If you don't know how to code in those languages, you can easily use a free/open-source software editor, there are hundreds of them out there, not to count the thousands of proprietary ones, mostly freeware.

Also, the support for audio is very small. We don't even have full support for OGG, we can only support OGG Audio (OGA) with Vorbis, no FLAC, no video, no other nice things. It's very funny to see those integrated into free software that was designed for GNU/Linux and runs natively on Windows as well, with the required libraries freely available.

The interface is very limited as well. The only themed objects we have are the slider, win button, media player and a few other objects. We don't have themes backgrounds to be used for tool bars and other stuff, which are used by AMS but aren't made available to us. One thing that I like is the runtime resize for objects. Though that's a bit late.

I personally don't think that the RTF object, the checkbox and radiobuttons, as well as slideshows and MSI actions can outdo the features mentioned above. Basically AMS 7 isn't a major version at all, and it doesn't deserve to be called "7". Not even 6.5, maybe a 6.1 (and I haven't seen any versioning scheme like that in IR).

If you are interested, I have quit using AMS and I'm focusing on using PHP-GTK, as well as learning C++. Thanks for reading!

[Haydeng]

This is exactly how I feel (sorry). I have since been using C# and C++ the past 6-7 Months, as there is so much more power with those two, easy to learn also... and they are free (express versions)!

[Intrigued]

You definitely did not hold back any punches... which can be a good thing if a company wants to stay competitive, they'll read this (as I'm sure I.R. will) and factor such a comment into their overall thinking process with concerns to AMS. That's just my opinion of course.

Because what you stated here probably is being thought by several others.

Personally, for me, I expected more in the inital release after all of the suggestions we put forth, but I at the same time I realize AMS is on different upgrade path now. Being that AMS is on a "fast track" time frame... we should see updates more often, as in not every say 18 months, but perhaps 18 weeks.

I would say hang in there with AMS. I would not be surprised if we see those "basic features" found in other general purpose programming languages, platforms implemented in AMS. And then we can start seeing some exciting inclusions that will push AMS beyond what those other platforms can achieve, or achieve such much easier for us developers.

If that fails I fire up PureBasic and finish a project with that.

[FoxLeader]

I agree with those opinions. But, I'm gonna wait till the next update to know if it's a good value to buy the the 7.0, since I'm as well waiting for those features.

I had a look at the various .Net platforms and I love all the resources (and sources) availbe for them, speeding up developpement. But we need the d***it .Net framework, someting that's not installed on every computer.

But AMS is still very fast and easy for most tasks, so I'll stick with 6.0 for now ;)

[Haydeng]

Foxleader, C++ can create native applications that don't require the framework. I do love Microsoft's full product documentation (And I mean FULL). Also, there are 100's of resource websites out there.... anyway, back to AMS. I Still love the product, it is what got me in to programing so don't get me wrong. After I got good enough, I moved up to a more powerful language and software.

[FoxLeader]

@Haydeng: Oh... thanks for the input. I didn't know all those, as I said I just had a look at the .Net, since I love the new WPF and .Net 3.0/3.5 effects (carousel, 3D menus as exemples).

Anyway, I'm in the same position: at first I was just programming for Web, but I had some more needs and had a look in AMS, then felt in love :D
But I need some more power... exactly like you, and probably the most advanced users out there.

[holtgrewe]

Interesting points. I suspected that someone would jump on the fact that this was a very meager offering as a FULL Release of AMS versus a point upgade.

I use AMS as a hobbiest, and I don't want to learn the alphabet soup of technologies that exist today. I want to easily be able to build multi-media applications in a drag & drop environment using a simple scripting language. That's what I have in AMS.

I started with AMS3, AMS4, then AMS6. I will be upgrading to AMS7, and have the utmost confidence that IR will continue to be the leader in rapid development/deployment for multi-media CDs and applications.

I believe the subscription based offering which IR is developing will help establish the foundation for the ongoing product quality. A company can not continually give-away free upgrades.

[Radioguy]

Well I think the RTF feature is a very useful additon...but I'll wait and see what else is in the pipeline before jumping to 7. I use 6.5 daily, along with other similar progs in my toolbox when APMS isn't up to the task....which by the way is rare;)

[FoxLeader]

but I'll wait and see what else is in the pipeline before jumping to 7. I use 6.5 daily, along with other similar progs in my toolbox when APMS isn't up to the task....which by the way is rare;)

Exactly :)

[yosik]

As Intrigued said, the upgrade pace has been downscaled so even though 7 is a major release, it is not a stopping point till next stepping stone, but rather a start of a smooth upgoing curve.
Our (the users) inputs should definitely influence the trend and development path of AMS.

Yossi

[Tuberculosis]

Interesting points. I suspected that someone would jump on the fact that this was a very meager offering as a FULL Release of AMS versus a point upgade.

I use AMS as a hobbiest, and I don't want to learn the alphabet soup of technologies that exist today. I want to easily be able to build multi-media applications in a drag & drop environment using a simple scripting language. That's what I have in AMS.

I started with AMS3, AMS4, then AMS6. I will be upgrading to AMS7, and have the utmost confidence that IR will continue to be the leader in rapid development/deployment for multi-media CDs and applications.

I believe the subscription based offering which IR is developing will help establish the foundation for the ongoing product quality. A company can not continually give-away free upgrades.

Sometimes I wonder how many people are in your same boat. I know I am... I'm not a "hobbiest" but I use the software to run my software packages. I don't want to code (well, not that much anyway). I learned that in college and hated it. I guess the issue is making the program work for people like me, but making it powerful for people who want to do more...

[azmanar]

Hi,

I agree with Intrigue, where comments are good for anyone and they can strategize from it to become better than competitors.

At my end, I'm not a hobbyist with AMS. It is one of my important tools to make money.

Before I buy any software, I usually spend a lot of time comparing features, simplicity, intuitiveness, original, pricing, support, formats and potential outputs to make money. Each one will be tested dilligently for my purposes.

So far, AMS matches my requirements for exactly 3 years, without fail.

[usernameCasper]

I feel the same way.
But, keep in mind that AMS isn't an IDE to develop complicated things imo.
It's still refer to make simple applications.
I'm used to program in cpp and java for many years, don't even forgot pascal
and many other languages.
While you may program everything in cpp, like AMS is programmed in cpp too,
you still can make DLL's or other apps to integrate this into your AMS projects.
I'm using AMS for making small applications in no time, that don't require much
(advanced) options, for work or serious projects, I stick with Dev-C++ and VC.
If you want make something big, with complex things, than I suggest using
other IDE's that support them.
Any resources that are available in AMS are a big plus for the AMS-users.
Thus, I support it's good to post this thread, to make AMS better and better.
Programming has never been so simple as this, after using many of IDE's and SDK's.

The huge benefit of AMS is still the time for making applications (much faster
than in any language).
You don't have to import libraries, making classes, and you don't have to know all the language
API's, only when you want too integrate it.

This post is my feeling about it.

-Casper

[SteveDude]

If you are interested, I have quit using AMS and I'm focusing on using PHP-GTK, as well as learning C++. Thanks for reading!

I've been programming in C/C++ professionally for around 20 years now. I live a very good life off of royalties alone. One that would make most people drewl.

I would dare anyone to create an autoplay app in C++ or any other standard programming language as fast and clean as one done in AMS without a ton of runtimes or extensions. Even Corel who has about a 100 C++ programmers use AMS as their autorun and some of the installer supported code.

I, too was disappointed at first with the 7 update, but now that it is subscription based makes the update worth it.

The RTF control is more important than what is stated. RTF support fits better into many peoples workflow as most license agreements were already done that way.

MSI is much more important and a very valuable tool in todays world of Vista boxes and other OS's in the future. Let me see someone deal with that in C++...just have fun reinventing the wheel.

Code Signing, although I think the handeling could of been better is a big time saver.

Time is money and yes there are other alternatives, but my money is on AMS.

[rhosk]

Yep, have to chime in and agree with the OP subject. I personally don't think it is worth a version change - we've had more features added in the past with mere interim upgrades. I really don't see where this is going.

Not liking the subscription thing either (although haven't needed much support because of the forum). 1 year goes by pretty fast. What happens after a year... what do you have to purchase to stay subscribed? If it's written somewhere, I just haven't looked.

Version 6, etc had a nice feature progression and was well worth the $$ to upgrade. It does what I need it to do, so I won't be upgrading anytime soon.

Is IR at least going to comment? We know you're reading it :)

[usernameCasper]

have fun reinventing the wheel.
Exactly, I totally agree.

Then have fun making tons of methods/classes that are already created.
I made a youtube downloader for fun in less than 1,5 week, while I was
working and university with 2 studies.
Guess how many time this gonna take in cpp, that would take you over
8 weeks at least (not even mentionned to make GUI's).
And if you are a starter in the language, well don't think it's even done in 4 months.
Good luck learning the win api's, as .NET 3 framework is just out, it's even more extensive.

As for AMS, I'll stick to version 6 till I see some improvement based on feedback and officially update news.

[ricardohdezsv]

Dear Sirs:

I am a beginner in AMS, but I love this program because during my life, I was waiting one program like this, ( Easy to use )

During the next months ( three or four) my company is going to contact Indigorose for a big project, because AMS fits all the characteristics for us and it will be used in the near future for many companies ( With the authorization of Indigorose of course), the market is very big for our project.

Thanks and please do observations in a constructive way,

Thanks, God bless you and sorry for my bad english,

RH

[Brett]

Is IR at least going to comment? We know you're reading it :)

Oh, we are reading. ;)

Actually, I am hesitant to pipe in too much because a) I do not want to sound argumentative and b) I do not want to influence the conversation - I am enjoying it too much.

But, since you asked, here are a few of my thoughts on the matter:

1. As far as the "I can use C#/GTK/JAVA/C++/Etc./Etc. FREE" statement - I couldn't agree more. By all means - use the tool that is appropriate to the task. I do. AMS is a niche product - its appeal is to those who can't (or don't want to) use more complicated, expensive, solutions to develop CD/DVD front ends and othet multimedia applications. It is not intended to overrun C++, C#, .NET, Java, PHP or anything like that. It is there because it can quickly and easily create very attractive applications that have little to no runtime dependencies.

Saying that AMS cannot do the same thing as C++ is like saying that your drywall knife is crappy because it just can't drive in nails like your hammer can. Part of being a good developer is knowing where a tool fits into your toolbox and then using it to achieve ultimate efficiency for the task. (this is the part that will sound argumentative, btw ;) )

2. The subscription system - this is a new thing for us. But to us it makes sense. And ultimately, it is good for you, the customer. Let me explain why (this is ALL my opinion, btw).

You see, the problem with the BIG upgrade every year or two system is:

a) It is bad for us, the developer, because our revenue from our software comes in bursts and is not consistent or predictable. What that means is that it is hard for us to know how much of our limited resources we should put towards the product.

b) It is bad for you because you have to wait and wait and wait for major new features to be introduced into the software. A subscription system will provide bigger features and improvements on a more consistent basis.

The good thing about a subscription system like ours is:

a) It is good for us because we have a more predictable, measureable revenue stream from the product and can more easily quantify and justify the expenses it takes to provide ongoing development and support.

b) It is good for you because you get a choice and ultimately can save money on the software. This is because you can, on a year to year basis, say "OK, I just don't use that product any more. I am not going to renew my subscription - what I have of it is good enough." Then a year and a half later, you can come back in and get it going again if you want to.

It is also good for you because it gives you more power. Hey - we want you to be happy and renew when the time comes. We need to listen to you and to be responsive to your needs and feedback. Because we get less revenue on a yearly basis on a subscription vs a major upgrade, we need to work harder to keep you happier for a longer time. We only make the money back if you are happy over time.

Trust me, from a development cycle point of view, the infrequent major upgrade cycle is easier to deal with and manage. But we want to be different. We want to have a continual, ongoing relationship with you, our customer. Not just once every few years when it is major upgrade time. With the subscription system, we know you are in for another year, we know that we owe you features and tech support for another year.

Sorry this is so long winded. I just want to try and clarify things here a bit. If you are happy with AMS60 and do not feel that AMS70 is worth the price, then don't buy it. Seriously, I would rather you be happy with 6.0 than begrudgingly buy 7.0. Let us prove ourselves to you.

[mindstitchdr]

Thank you Brett.

[longedge]

Personally I've run out of steam playing catch up. I've only just managed to get version 6 a few weeks ago because of the hoops I have to jump through getting any spend authorised. We bought version 4 just a couple of weeks before the free update period to 5 began so that was out of date almost immediately and we had to buy version 5.

To be honest, I didn't need version 6 but the AMS5 forum got to be a very lonely place :) but AMS6 certainly looks like the end of the line for me.

[pakapaka]

OK Brett..... Your arguments are fair but....

....will I be able to skip a version without having to pay for a version I did not want to purchase. AND will I be able to jump from Version 6.0 to 8.0 with an upgrade price or will I get done for the full price?
Pakapaka

[rhosk]

To be honest, I didn't need version 6 but the AMS5 forum got to be a very lonely place but AMS6 certainly looks like the end of the line for me.

Maybe that's just it, version 6 has everything you need already. Could be a good thing that it can't get any better - all the best is in it already :D



I hope that makes sense...

[Brett]

OK Brett..... Your arguments are fair but....

....will I be able to skip a version without having to pay for a version I did not want to purchase. AND will I be able to jump from Version 6.0 to 8.0 with an upgrade price or will I get done for the full price?
Pakapaka

In that case there will be an upgrade price available I would imagine... OTOH, who knows if there ever will be a v8.0. If there is it will be an arbitrary version change - on a subscription system it is one long product line.

Here is your ROI calculation for AMS70 upgrade:

if (HS X PPH) > ($149) then
-- Worth the price
end

where HS is the number of hours it will save you this year (keeping in mind additional new features and bug fixes and the fact that you will be entitled to tech support from us) and PPH is the amount your time is worth per hour.

If you are a hobbiest who uses it for fun, claculate the number of hours of entertainment that the product provides you per year and multiply it by $4 (the price you will pay to watch a movie for an hour). ;)

I am being a little tongue in cheeck here, but honestly, don't buy anything from us out of obligation or friendship or habit. Buy it if it makes sense to your bottom line (whatever that bottom line happens to be).

[mindstitchdr]

Hey brett, How long is my current upgrade price from Version 6 to Version 7 going to be good for?

[Brett]

Hey brett, How long is my current upgrade price from Version 6 to Version 7 going to be good for?

I believe that the $149 offer that we emailed out is until December 14, 2007 afterwhich the standard upgrade price will be $195.

[usernameCasper]

Hey Bret,

Thanks to mention your view on this.
I agree with your first point :yes
Keep enjoying :p

-Casper

[holtgrewe]

If you are a hobbiest who uses it for fun, claculate the number of
hours of entertainment that the product provides you per year and multiply it
by $4 (the price you will pay to watch a movie for an hour)

...let me see here, the entertainment value of AMS7 versus my season tickets for the St. Louis Rams football. Hmm - not a real tough choice here.

Brett, just wondering. Do you do stand up comedy on the side...lol.

[Desolator]

I agree with pretty much everyone here. However, I'm not saying that AMS is intended to overrun C++. No. I'm saying that the new release has added stuff less important than other. You don't need to reinvent the wheel at all, there are hundreds of libraries for every popular operating system to add LZMA, D&D, and other things I mentioned. If you have even look at a GNU/Linux distribution's repository you'll see that 70% of it contains libraries to be used by developers. Most of them are cross-platform as well, and for those that aren't we have Line, a project like Wine but inverted - it converts POSIX API calls to Windows API ones. This way you can get pretty much everything to run.

Also, we have SDL, which can be used for pretty much everything. For Windows it comes as a DLL and provides some good abstraction for lots Windows features, that includes support for playing quite a lot of audio formats, video formats, loading tens of image formats, etc. It even includes complex audio mixers and so,

What would be handy is AMS-GTK or AMS-Qt, basically using GTK+ (made in C) or Qt (made in C++, but both have libraries to translate calls from one to another ;)) that would be compatible with the Windows build. Imagine the potential it could give. Most stuff is already built in the toolkits, with everything you would possibly need already installed.

[Mihaly]

Yes, I’m also disappointed by the new version and then to add injury to injury with a year subscription – I have to ask myself; “self, why did you upgrade to this version, when AMS6 is working very well for you?”

[srussell]

First off, you have to give IR some credit where credit is due. They have great support for all of their products and they've been in the business a long time... (anyone remember AutoPlay on floppy?), so any new release will be a solid product.

IR is extremely receptive to input from all of their users (go check out the Scrapbook MAX (http://www.scrapbookmax.com)forum, there's 7200 women there that would be happy to give you their opinions - LMAO) and they always seem to be very diligent and procedural about how they handle it. Do getting that kind of support with Macromedia/Adobe...

Let's face it, no matter how many features are added, someone will always want something that's not there. Autoplay didn't really start out as a full development environment, but look at what it has evolved into?

I personally have spent hundreds and hundreds of dollars on other products (Marcromedia Director 4.0 cost me $800 USD for a used copy, MediaForge cost me $600, Multimedia Builder cost $99, etc) and I have have to say that Autoplay is well worth the inital price and upgrades.

So just ask yourself, is it worth it? I say a whole-hearted yes! :D

[Bruce]

Well with all this a** chewing going on I'm sure there'll be some sweet upgrades coming down the pike!;) If not, AMS will go by the wayside within a year, sooo hold on to your underwear let’s see where it’s going. :yes (I'm game)

[bule]

I don't know what is the issue here. If you are an existing APMS v6 user and you value the (new options + one year of free updates + one year technical support) 149$, then upgrade to a new version, and if not, then keep the version 6 and stop whining. Yes, the v7 is absent of some of the needed features, but that does not mean they will not be introduced soon, giving that the APMS is now on a quick release cycle. Version 7 is called seven since it contains several new features, some probably small under the hood changes and a complete new way of pricing and development approach. Numbering is marketing, and the marketing part has changed a lot. I don't know what is the big deal here... Like IR owes us a new version full of features or something? APMS 7 suite is what they are offering you, if you like it, buy it, if not, then please do not whine that some other IDE has this and has that and that it is free and I do not know what... if you like that other tool, that by all means, use it!

However, IR, let me do some child whining as well:

User interface and final polishing - even if it is irrelevant, the final touch is missing. The product is looking the same as v6. At least the welcome screen could have been enhanced.
Native data grid control - any so called rapid application development environment can not be called a RAD if it does not contain a data grid. It just can't. Not to mention database connectivity and data aware components. (There is a DataGrid plugin, but that is not a excuse)
Child window support - any application must be able to show custom made forms that are also know as child windows. This basic functionality is missing in APMS, and could be so effective if forms could be designed the same way pages can.
Events - it would be really appreciated if we could handle all common events across all objects.
Debugger - RAD without being able to set a breakpoint and do the tracing? Sorry, no can do.
Keyboard control - all object should be keyboard controllable, focusable and tabable.


Nevertheless, I like v7 a lot, especially the resizing functionality!

Bule has spoken! :D

[ricardohdezsv]

:yes
Bule I agree with you - Simple for all of us: If you like it, buy it, ( I bought it)

For me the best software is APMS :yes

RH
2221-0788

[Intrigued]

$149 for an upgrade with a year of support. Heck, just create one very small application, sell it for $5 on some site and get your money back. Or do like I did with AMS 5 at a cost of $500... I created training CDs and smaller applications and have still recouped that and then some, to say the least.

Look, just doing one small project over the course of the entire subscription year is surely possible for everyone, even for someone just starting out with AMS 7 for example.

Here's the tip:

After you feel comfortable with AMS, if you are new to the product, then don't worry about knowing every little thing about AMS... but get a good understanding of the basics. Then approach businesses in your area. Ask them if they would be interested in a small application, a utility application. Something that fits to what they are doing. You may not get a sale on the first try, but if you approach say 30 businesses, the owners or managers mind you, you may just be suprised. My first application was for $80 only! I ended up gettint a $20 tip for a whopping $100 fee collected. True story and you can do it too.

Let me know if you have success with this approach, or if you found an approach that works.

As a matter of fact I am going to be redoing the www.amsuser.com Website and I would be happy to post those "we made money with AMS" success stories.

And always try to have fun, the work will get done and usually much quicker, accurately too.

:)

[Derek]

I don't know what is the issue here. If you are an existing APMS v6 user and you value the (new options + one year of free updates + one year technical support) 149$, then upgrade to a new version, and if not, then keep the version 6 and stop whining /... let me do some child whining as well:wow lol !!

I'm trying to stay out of this. Just continue reading and keep my thoughts to myself.
Maybe it's time for IR to start a new board where users can whine about what they would like to see in future releases [I think they used to call it suggestions].
"AutoPlay Media Studio 7.0 Suggestions" might be a good name.

[madsen]

I think the whole thing it's even more simple.

If you are an AMS6 user, and peeking at AMS7, just try out the Trial (that's why it is available) and if you feel it's so much like AMS6, then stick with AMS6 :)

On the other side, think that AMS7 it's what it is today because of countless hours of work of IndigoRose's team which is sustained by the users who purchase the product, by purchasing it you just sustain it's development.

No offence to anyone, just my thoughts.

[SteveDude]

I migrated from DemoShield to AMS. DemoShield users were dropped like a hot potatoe with no way to reactivate on a new machine. DemoShield was not for the weak at heart, cumbersome to use, horrible support and was just plain expensive.

Not long after I purchased AMS 6, I bought most of IR's other products, not just because of them being good and innovative products, but because I quickly learned they come from a company that believes in what they do, stands behind their product and they really care about their user base. This is a proven, it wasn't IR that sold me on their products, but existing users. That says alot about a company.

Don't get that from very many other developer tool vendors. Many I believe think we are developers, computer savy, so we can just figure things out on our own.

Initial cost and upgrade prices are fair and not overly inflated like some other products I know of.

[Protocol]

For me:

HS = TooMany; -- According to my lady
PPH = ("2LtrMountainDew" + "BagOfDorritos");



Counter = 0;
AMSFeatures = 0;
AMSDevStatus = 0;
Features = {"Fun Hobby", "Money Maker", "Way To Keep Wife At Bay", 'True "Rapid" Application Development'};

FeaturesCount = Table.Count(Features);
while (Counter <= FeaturesCount) do
AMSFeatures = (AMSFeatures + 1);
Counter = (Counter + 1);
end

if (AMSFeatures == 0) then
AMSDevStatus = "Where I was before I purchased the product.";
else
AMSDevStatus = "Totally loving it (more than my Mt. Dew and Dorritos).";
end

Dialog.Message("Status", AMSDevStatus, MB_OK, MB_ICONINFORMATION, MB_DEFBUTTON1);



I don't know about you all, but I just finished my first AMS7 freelance project 2 days ago. Ironically, they just asked if I can tweak the multi-line input to be Rich Text formatting. It was pretty flippin cool to be able to say "No problem!" without flinching. Of course, this is going to be part of a paid upgrade package for them (version 1.1). I'm happy, client's happy. :)


BTW: AMSDevStatus = "Totally loving it (more than my Mt. Dew and Dorritos)." and I've got too much time on my hands considering I'm hung over from a night of partying. =D




;)

[Animl]

Bhah!!, a bit of paranoia drivel.

IMO, which doesn't count for much, AMS, no matter what version, has a quality that stands on it's own. It fills certain needs, and the learning curve is not very steep. It fills holes most of us would still be looking for had it not been around.

Support, whether it be directly from IR or forum lurkers, is some of the best around. That in itself can make a product great. In a lot of cases asking the authors\company simple questions you feel lucky to get a canned cut and paste response. Or some mindless php script that spits out something irrelevant as some use try to automate support. Basically for what ever it's worth you get the human touch here.

As I understand it. The big work on this new version was not so much adding tons of features as it was setting it up to add more features faster. If that doesn't work for you then maybe you're just not "getting it" :).

IMO 6 mos from now some of ya might be eating some crow. Patients. As I tend to say a lot "sometimes slower IS faster". I never saw anyone do anything truly constructive running around like chickens with their heads cut off. :) But hey, who the heck am I?

I can spend $149 paying for a nice dinner for 4. Or I can buy a tool that helps me afford 20 of those dinners. I can cough $149. OR I can spend $400 for something that takes so long to make something decent I have to barrow money for dinner, until I get it done just to find out someone already made something better. :)

Animl

[longedge]

Bhah!!, a bit of paranoia drivel.[snip]

Not at all. It's a major change in the way that AMS is marketed and people are justifiably wary of the implications for example what about the way that bug fixes are released. General support is available for free (although it can't be relied on absolutely) but you can't get a bug fixed in the forum. Ongoing software maintenance charging is not a revenue stream that Microsoft have yet decided to tap into, but who knows what might happen in the future.

For me, working in an organisation which is constantly seeking to make savings, there is no chance of getting an open ended authorisation to spend.

The decision to go down this route has been made and isn't going to be altered now but it remains to be seen how things pan out.

[bule]

Yes, but as stated, once you buy APMS7, you can continue to use
it without paying for the subscription once it expires, without time limit.

However, if you do keep paying for a subscription on an annual basis,
you will get all new versions, for free!

[Mihaly]

CC: Colin A.

I had no intention to respond to this posting again, but after following this post I believe that I should.

1. If you read this post from the beginning you will find that the folks are stating that they are disappointed in AMS7, not the Indigo Rose’s team. It is the AMS7 product that I am greatly disappointed in.

2. To your question “why did I buy AMS7 without first trying the trail version?” This is a very good question which I will attempt to answer. Businesses tend to buy in the 4Q for tax reasons and/or extra money in department budgets. OK now to why I did not test drive before I bought AMS7. This is a very simple answer, “A loyal and very happy user of Indigo Rose's products and their proven track record over the many years with their upgrades.”

3. You should also note that the majority of the writers are saying the same thing about the AMS7; we have to “wait for 6 months when the new stuff will be released.” Then I say again, why buy now an upgrade to AMS6, when AMS6 is not broken and there is nothing new for my department in the AMS7 version. By buying AMS7 on the release date, my yearly subscription started and will expires in Nov 2008. I should have waited until the Indigo Rose’s team releases new features/functions and then buy AMS7. Like some are saying, new features will be released in 6 months, based on this statement I would then buy the upgrade, subscription would then start and run into 2009, not ending, like now, Nov 2008.

4. My thoughts on why AMS7 was released when it was; Back to Business 101 – This is not to say this is true, but only my thoughts.

By releasing AMS7 this time of year would only be to help make the 4Q numbers and/or bigger year end bonuses.

5. I believe that the release of AMS7 at this time will back fire on Indigo Rose’s plans for this product line over the long term unless Indigo Rose release useful features/functions now or extend our present subscription based on the release of useful features/functions.

The marketing team should be looking at the reader ship of this post and see that someone who OKed the release of AMS7 at this time blew it big time.

I‘ve said my last on this subject.

Cheers

Mihaly

[Derek]

lol ... oops!

[Radioguy]

I'm going to upgrade before the December deadline passes and have been watching the comments pro and con.

I'm an only year old APMS 6.5 fan and think Rich Text Integration is my main reason for going for lucky 7 so far.

Is there any other undocumented PRO's to 7 such as fixes work flow etc that long time users have noticed in this release?

Cheers

[holtgrewe]

Rich test is a great new feature. I do a lot of slideshows and for my money the slidshow object makes it so simple - (no more cutting and pasting my slide show scripts). That being said, I hope an upgrade will include a variety of transitions, or a means by which additional transitions can be implemented.

[ScottDuncan]

I've been using AMS for a few years, and on my WinXP Pro x64 system i've never been able to save a workspace layout. It has always errored out. It's really been too bad that i can't take avantage of my 3 monitors with a custom workspace layout. With AMS7 i can finally use a custom layout, no error. So far, that's my favorite feature of AMS7.

[Radioguy]

Thanks for the positive feed back. Richtext, Slideshows and now, I guess I'll have to buy two more monitors;)


Cheers

[azmanar]

Hi,

Undocumented features of AMS7 that I like pretty much:
1. Quicker launch of the software, all event panes, objects and plugins.
2. Efficient handling of images, audio and video clips.
3. SAVES LOTS OF PRODUCTION TIME to create an app. $$$

[Intrigued]

I recommend AMS 7 for those looking to buy for the first time or if you are looking to upgrade. Nothing in life is a "sure thing", but Indigo Rose Corporation has earned my trust and I have full confidence in their employees and plan of action, with regards to the AMS platform, customer service, and overall their professionalism.

I also would not stress out to much about it. Things like this seem "bigger than they are" in the near-term. As in a bigger problem than they really are. It'll work out in the end. Lets just keep giving them any bugs we find, via posts here in the proper area of the forum and any suggestions we have not seen recommended before.

Good luck with those AMS projects!

[Radioguy]

Yep, just upgraded today and the first thing I did was convert a project I released in V6.5 and it imported flawlessly.

Now to delve into the features and yes, azmanar, I noticed the speed up...unless it's all the coffee I'm consuming lately;)

[eric_darling]

I, too, considered not upgrading to 7, but I found it hard to resist with the deal that's expiring on Friday for existing users of version 6. For $149 USD, let's look at what you get... A whole new version (perhaps less major than former major version releases, but still, several important new and improved features as have been discussed here). Plus, upgrades for a whole year. If, at the end of that year period, I feel like another subscription payment isn't worth it, I still get to keep this version. Furthermore, $149 is considerably less than what it cost to buy former major version upgrades. So, it's probably about right, and a fair offer.

I bought the upgrade today, with no immediate need to use the software, but one coming a month or so down the pike. It's nice to know I'll have the power of the new version and the continued support of the IR team at that point.

There is the secondary (my opinion) issue of the scope of upgraded features in 7 vs. 6. I have to admit, it's slightly less new-feature-rich than former versions. So, in that sense I was also less impressed. However, the RTF object is so critical, and the page/object scaling feature so necessary, that I think it's a base-line need. This is the problem with setting the bar so high as a software development company - your customers come to expect a lot on every release!

I have to say good work to IR for finding an appropriate business model for this now very mature software product. I believe great new features are still in store for us users down the line, and I can only hope that I get to see some before my year of covered upgrades runs out. :) (did someone say output to SWF???)

[Derek]

did someone say output to SWF???
lol .. how long has that been rattling around? If we all shout loud enough, they might just bless us with such a feature. :yes

[bule]

lol .. how long has that been rattling around? If we all shout loud enough, they might just bless us with such a feature. :yes

I think it's just too complex to convert LUA scripts tu ActionScript, so I find this feature very tricky to implement.

[Derek]

True, true!
If it was easy IR would have done this by now, i'm sure.

hmm, maybe Adobe should ditch the ActionScript idea and change to LuaScript. If we shout loud enough maybe we can get them to change it ... just for us!! :yes :lol

[bule]

hmm, maybe Adobe should ditch the ActionScript idea and change to LuaScript. If we shout loud enough maybe we can get them to change it ... just for us!! :yes :lol

Lol, Adobe embraces Lua very much (they are one of the bigger Lua sponsors and extensively use Lua in many projects, including their Photoshop Lightroom), however that what you are talking about will definitely never happen. There are a way many Flash developers out there than APMS ones that need this export option. Change their language? No freaking way...

[PeterLiberty]

True, true!
If it was easy IR would have done this by now, i'm sure.

hmm, maybe Adobe should ditch the ActionScript idea and change to LuaScript. If we shout loud enough maybe we can get them to change it ... just for us!! :yes :lol

More importantly, there are licensing costs... and Adobe's are quite prohibitive. :) LUA is free and can be used in commercial application at no cost.

[Buffman]

Hi Everyone,

I just wanted to give my input on this thread. I still haven't upgraded to v7 - not because of the money, but because there hasn't been any new features in v7 that have made me want to upgrade. I'm able to do everything just fine in v6. When/if the time comes, I'm sure I'll upgrade.

Honestly, I'm okay with the subscription model. $149/yr isn't that much and worth it compared to what I get out of AMS. But what I'd really like to see is a product roadmap with planned features. Even better, would be a voting model where all of us could ask for what we want most.

But with the lack of new features in v7, I am quite shy to go to a subscription plan and keep waiting and waiting for the real features all of us are wanting. But if I know something is planned and being worked on, I have no problem forking out the cash.

Thanks - comments from IR are welcome!

[eric_darling]

I'm not convinced that a roadmap of any sort would be beneficial (or fair to ask of IR). Times change and so does the context in which the idea for a feature came about. I honestly think that we can't expect IR to run their company like a Democracy. For them to provide a voting model would be folly. Perhaps a multiple choice question, where they really want specific input, but I've always known this company to seek out and integrate the ideas of their users. Personally speaking, I know they always issue features that have real application for me. Nothing new in version 7 is superfluous. Are some items more useful than others? Yes, and then, maybe some will inspire new ways of doing tasks that used to require creative workarounds.

At the same time that IR introduced a less robust upgrade, they also introduced a less robust price point. I think that's fair. This is hardly the end of the AMS road, and even though we don't have a map, we've got a pretty good set of tools to get us where we need to go.

[Intrigued]

Hi Everyone,

I just wanted to give my input on this thread. I still haven't upgraded to v7 - not because of the money, but because there hasn't been any new features in v7 that have made me want to upgrade. I'm able to do everything just fine in v6. When/if the time comes, I'm sure I'll upgrade.

Honestly, I'm okay with the subscription model. $149/yr isn't that much and worth it compared to what I get out of AMS. But what I'd really like to see is a product roadmap with planned features. Even better, would be a voting model where all of us could ask for what we want most.

But with the lack of new features in v7, I am quite shy to go to a subscription plan and keep waiting and waiting for the real features all of us are wanting. But if I know something is planned and being worked on, I have no problem forking out the cash.

Thanks - comments from IR are welcome!

Just out of curiosity, which feature(s), would get you to buy?

[Tuberculosis]

But with the lack of new features in v7, I am quite shy to go to a subscription plan and keep waiting and waiting for the real features all of us are wanting. But if I know something is planned and being worked on, I have no problem forking out the cash.

I'm with another company that uses the "subscription" model and they are lazy... they know they are getting their money so updates are thrown together in a fashion that leaves you baffled. You can't not pay the subscription, because if you do you have to pay the years you missed plus the current year... and if you miss two years, you have to pay full retail.

Terrible subscription plan from www.OutStart.com

So in other words, you keep paying, every year, no matter what. I've been told by IR that they are not going to have a subscription like this though... hopefully they won't... it is not a good model to follow.... I do look forward to more updates throught the year, but that might make it seem as if you are not really getting anything special for your money... they would have to keep some great change logs...

[cgirolet]

i've just upgraded to ams 7.0 (from 6) and as others i like the additions (having more features is always a good thing) and of course there are things that are not included that i miss
- no image related actions like resize/resample convert
- no datagrid object (except as a plugin)
- no way to attach a file to an email without uuencoding it,

but i still put my full confidence in indigorose and as brett said i will wait and see, if at the end of the year i see that i got nothing but minor fixes here and there then i will not renew otherwise i will

ams 7 is very young to judge it if it was worth the upgrade or not, let time passes and see what happens before firing at indigorose, i'm using ams since 2.0 and it did well in many occasions, keep on the good work guys, we're still behind you

claude

[Radioguy]

Speaking of minor patches my new apms7 just updated to 7.1. Anyone know what it fixed or upgraded?


Cheers

[bule]

7.1 is the initial release, AFAIK.