Cloud Cubes - Buying...

[Intrigued]

Cloud Cubes... anyone have comments on such? I'm interested in them for eBay auctions in particular.

[Corey]

Wotsa cloud cube?

[gbrown]

Do you have one for sale?? I need one for doing some glass photography like this (one of my latest, by the way! ;) ):

[Intrigued]

Here's an example:

http://www.clouddome.com/specs/prodShot_ccpt01.html

and...

Nice gbrown!

:yes

[gbrown]

Gee, looking at the site, and on eBay, it looks as if it's just as inexpensive to buy from the manufacturer. The lights look a bit pricey, though. I figure you could pretty much get anything and then adjust the camera to the correct colour temperature. Looking on eBay you even see some 5000K compact fluorescent lamps for around US$6 or so.

And...

Thanks for the comment! I love that iridized glass.

[Desmond]

That's really neat! I wonder if they make people-sized cloud domes/cubes . . .

[gbrown]

In further searching, I came accross this:

Light Box (on eBay) (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7551574246&ssPageName=MERC_VI_RSCC_Pr4_PcY_BIN_Stores_IT)

It's about 1/2 the size, though.

GcB

[Corey]

Based upon experience I think you'd have a better quality system if you got a couple cheap 500W quartz worklights ($25 each) from any hardware store and 4 pieces of white poster paper from any art store ($12). Lay them on any table with the last few pieces curved upward against the back of a chair to eliminate corner shadows. You'll get way better quality shots and you won't be restricted by size quite as badly. That's how I did all the product shots for our stuff. Takes 5 minutes to set up and take down and the lights are great for using in your yard or work area year round... Plus it gives you the flexibility to use any color/texture poster paper for maximum wow factor. For example a glass thingy will often look more appealing against a stone or velvet texture. The danger with a small white box is ending up with a bunch of product photos which are basically. It's tricky hard to make your gallery/catalog appealing if all your shots are 99% similar... :)

FWIW These cloud cubes are extremely hard to use in terms of getting a professional shot. I don't know any photographers that use them. It's hard to get your lights and camera into that tiny window properly. Lots of people use whiteboxes but those are different, they have no "roof" and they are generally a lot larger than 18" X 18". :yes

Desmond, The largest white box I've seen in a camera store was about 4' X 4' and maybe 24" tall. ($150 CAN) For photographing people they tend to use a white room with one wall curved from floor to wall. You can generally rent a small studio/whiteroom in town for like $25/hour. The thing is the lighting, it's *really* tricky to get your lighting perfect in a cramped space, and you lose a lot of flexibility in a very small space. :yes

[gbrown]

I think, though, that the big benefit for me would be the reflection-less lighting, Corey. The fabric will provide a more-or-less directionless light. With glass, that's a biggie.

Further eBay searching shows this:

Lotsa light gizmos (http://photography.listings.ebay.com/Light-Controls-Modifiers_Softboxes_W0QQfclZ3QQfromZR11QQsacatZ790 08QQsocmdZListingItemList)

GcB

[Corey]

Actually when shooting glass, a small reflection is often extremely appealing. Poster paper is perfect because it doesn't cast reflections but you have the option to use gloss/semigloss to get that "Apple Inc." white sheen when/if you want it. ($10) And that's the most sought after look in product photography today, bar none. Try getting that out of a cloud cube, *very* tricky. Anyhow if it's art ye be selling then it's art lovers ye be selling too, and art lovers respond less well to 50 identical product photos than they do to a diverse gallery/catalog. Using the cloud cube you have almost no flexibilty but creating a little white table allows you to do almost anything including glow effects, night shots, etc. :yes

I would think for glass occasional dramatic lighting will often really set off the true appeal of the piece. Besides you can use any generic linen sheet ($3) to soften/mask light as needed. In my pro photography book that's how they shoot glass dishes, through a generic linen sheet. :yes

Don't get me wrong, soft boxes have their place for sure, but I wouldn't bother with those cloud cube lights and I'd look for a bigger softbox for $99-ish. One with a removable roof is a big plus too. :yes

[gbrown]

Hmmm.... guess it's off to the fabric shop this weekend! Hey, for ten or fifteen bucks what have I got to loose, eh?

GcB

[Desmond]

Desmond, The largest white box I've seen in a camera store was about 4' X 4' and maybe 24" tall. ($150 CAN) For photographing people they tend to use a white room with one wall curved from floor to wall. You can generally rent a small studio/whiteroom in town for like $25/hour. The thing is the lighting, it's *really* tricky to get your lighting perfect in a cramped space, and you lose a lot of flexibility in a very small space. :yes
Just fool'n around. I got this image in my head of someone walking into a studio wanting to have their picture taken, and the photographer saying "now just lie down under this dome for me . . .

Made me giggle.

[Corey]

If you have a glass top table here's an easy way to get a professional looking shot in 5 minutes:

1. Remove the glass table top, set it aside.
2. Place a piece of generic velvet/fabric under the table, arrange your art on that attractively.
2. Place a sheet over the table so it touches the floor on all sides except the front.
3. Move your lights right up against the outside of the sheet, one in front-ish and one on the side-ish until you get the right look. If you don't want to buy photo lights, just use inexpensive 500W quartz shop lights (http://www.lyco.co.uk/products/500w-Portable-Floodlight.htm?prodID=570). Use a cheap dimmer (http://www.acehardware.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1286172) if needed. Voila, under $50 total, and you've got 1000W. Ready, aim, shoot.

Voila. If you don't have a table frame, you can easily build one out of thin stock to fit any table/stand. The weight of a sheet is nothing. you could even use fishing line. :)

Using this method you easily can match the color and texture of the background to your art pieces, use different sheets to get different lighting, and you'll have room to shoot larger objects unlike a soft box which will only aloow you to shoot very small items properly. You'd be amazed how little room there is with these portable soft boxes. I tried to shoot a DVD in one once but there was just no way to make it look like it wasn't in a box... Eventually I did the poster board technique and was very happy with the result. :yes

[gbrown]

Ooooo.... I just thought of something :wow . I could get one of those big plastic storage bins that I seem to always have lying around. Cut a hole in the bottom of it big enough for the lens. Ta-dum! Light cube.

GcB

[Corey]

You'll want a bit of leeway in terms of camera angle, the best is when the front edge is either open or flexible, like a sheet, so that it can be easily draped over the camera in any position. A lot of product shots like a sort of top-left angle that is tricky to get if you don't have a little bit of room to move around. Anyhow that being said, I say try it. You'll never know how good it works until you try it and trying is 75% of the fun. Hee. :)

Anyhow the best thing is to visit a camera store and try out a soft box, they usually have one on display and they won't mind if you walk in with a camera and try a test shot, most camera stores are happy to have people coming in and trying stuff out. That will give you a really good idea if it's worth the money for you. If you're shooting anything tall like wine bottles or DVDs, you'll quickly figure out the minimum depth you need to get great shots. :)

FWIW the real benefit of these new ultra-small soft boxes is portability as opposed to quality for the most part as I understand it. They'd be great for shooting jewellry on location, etc. :yes

[Intrigued]

Thank you all, especially Corey in this thread, for your insights!

:yes

[Corey]

Let us know how it turns out. :yes

BTW I just noticed they offer an add-on to try and solve some of the tricky issues:
http://www.clouddome.com/specs/angledcollar.html

I'm not sure how that works, I'd love to try one. What makes me a bit supicious though is the lack of a photo gallery. If I were selling that piece, and if it really worked well, I'd post a nice gallery of shots to seal the deal with people... Those couple small before/after pictures they offer are worse than useless because they intentionally ruined the before shots as badly as possible. Deception. :o I'd like to see just an "after" gallery consisting of a dozen or so shots showing all the amazing things a real professional can achieve with the product. The lack of this gallery leads me to believe that you can't do too much with a cloud cube, although I may be wrong. :)

[Corey]

BTW here's a great example of how appeal is often tied more to "context" than "production" per se:

http://www.smithindustries.com/Rustic-Coat-Rack.jpg

That's a low quality production which provides plenty of impact and appeal to the viewer. If one were selling these things, I would say that would be quite a successful shot... Looks like a $10 sheet with a generic light and an inexpensive camera. There's even some sort of stand peeking into the photo in the lower left. :)

One has to be cautious about soft boxes in this regard in that they have a tendency to make everything appear very generic. That's perfect for many scenarios such as online catalogs, business stationary, etc. but for shooting artwork, you might achieve more viewer appeal by going with something a little less "perfect" looking. With art, nothing says "buy me" like a shot with rich appeal and that usually requires some color/texture/perspective to achieve. Flip through a few magazines and check out the photos which you consider to have the most appeal, I'll bet you an imaginary $10 none of them were done in soft boxes. So soft boxes, while convenient for some stuff, might not provide maximum appeal for many scenarios. :yes

[gbrown]

I just got from Ikea. I actually went there to pick up some neat lights that use flat glass (a sheet about 6" x 20") as a diffuser. I'm going to toss their glass and stick in a couple of pieces of mine.

But

While

I

Was

There....

I picked up this cool laundry basket for around US$7 that has a nice frame and is made of a great translucent fabric. Can you say cloud cube for under ten bucks? I also scored some mini spots at the same time for around $6 each with bulb. I'll take a picture of the setup and results tomorrow sometime (If I can get up the energy :D ) I've got a piece that just went into the kiln and it doesn't pop out until (gasp!) 1 AM. Oh well... I just got the "first 5 years of SNL", a Doctor Who, and the 3d Season of "Enterprise". That should keep me occupied.

[Corey]

IKEA has tons of great, inexpensive stuff which does good double duty for artistic applications. In fact our product shots were taken against white posterboard on an IKEA table, so... I would have to say that their industrial designers have consistently had all the best ideas in their industry year after year for decades now. The IKEA catalog is a virtual "how to" of design excellence.

That being said I'm not fond of the way they overdistribute their catalog. I read that the IKEA catalog has more distribution than any publication on earth and has had for some years now. What riles me is that I prefer online stuff, I have no desire to have physical paper being used up on my behalf for something so unnecessary. That being said I got no less than 2 IKEA catalogs this year. 2 weeks apart, on my doorstep. So to me that *clearly* indicates that IKEA couldn't care less about the environment, they're just like everyone else, profit about everything. I'm not impressed with them at all, in fact I'm rather disappointed. To me there's nothing worse than somebody who claims to be part of the solution when in fact they are the problem. :o

[Intrigued]

One has to be cautious about soft boxes in this regard in that they have a tendency to make everything appear very generic.

This actually is one point I do not want in my images, at least to any great degree. As it will make it seem like I just found an image and post it to my auctions. That can actually turn some away (as I have from some auctions). I find the best images show some sort of "homely" background, or that the image was not totally professional in apperance.

:yes

[Corey]

Well here's the thing. If you want to sell something, then I would agree. Check out the most successful catalogs in the world, i.e. IKEA, Martha Stewart, etc. and they all use environment to set off the focal point of their photos. It's pretty easy to do, just put yourself in the mind of your target consumer and then envision what they would think is "cool". A bad photo of a cool subject will get more sales response than a cool photo of a bad subject. Looking back on that last sentence I appear to be turning into my grade 9 shop teacher, Mr. Bustin. Anyhow you get the point. If you're selling glass art for example, shooting a photo of it against some wood or in an attractive environment will get you more sales than photographing it in a soft box. :)

It doesn't have to be difficult either. You live in Florida, you can even do something as simple as going down to a pier and placing an object on there, then shooting it against the backdrop of the pier angling into the sea. Focus so that the foreground is sharp and the background gets a bit blurry. Voila, quick, free, and easy, and that's a shot which has been used to successfully sell everything from run to aftershave. The richer your backdrop, the more "emotion" your shots will often have. Again, make sure to focus on what your consumers think is cool as opposed to what you think is cool, and you will be very happy with your results. Don't be afraid to do a little research, ask around, etc. The main thing is to listen to what consumers want without assessing or judging those wants on a personal level. All the most successful catalogs are based upon that model to some extent. :)

That being said, play to the level of the auction you use, there's no point in showing up with filet mignon at a softball game if you know what I mean. You have to make sure your stuff fits in with the environment you choose to deliver it through otherwise people will often not even check it out. For example if you are listing something at a Southeby type auction you would be well served to write a few pages of background text on your items whereas 99% of eBay buyers will avoid that much text... :yes

[Intrigued]

...You live in Florida, you can even do something as simple as going down to a pier and placing an object on there,...

I thought about that point again after visiting Homosassa Springs Wildlife State Park (http://www.manateecam.com/). (what a fun time that was and it's so close to my home)

Thanks again Corey for the insight(s).

:yes

[Corey]

You can get some good shots there no doubt. Sunlight is great for taking photos, it would be very hard to light a studio as evenly as sunlight. Be careful of really super bright days though, the ideal photo days are sometimes the ones which are a tad grey. If you are shooting on a really bright day carry along one of those little portable fold-up reflectors and pop it up beside your subject to diffuse the light. Eric Darling hipped me to that, for example those newcasters you see reporting outdoors on sunny days often have a screen beside them, just out of the shot, or an assistant holding up a diffuser/sheet. Anyhow happy shooting, be sure to share some of your photos here when you get them. :)

[Intrigued]

You can get some good shots there no doubt. Sunlight is great for taking photos, it would be very hard to light a studio as evenly as sunlight. Be careful of really super bright days though, the ideal photo days are sometimes the ones which are a tad grey. If you are shooting on a really bright day carry along one of those little portable fold-up reflectors and pop it up beside your subject to diffuse the light. Eric Darling hipped me to that, for example those newcasters you see reporting outdoors on sunny days often have a screen beside them, just out of the shot, or an assistant holding up a diffuser/sheet. Anyhow happy shooting, be sure to share some of your photos here when you get them. :)

:yes

Ya, today was fun... my wife put a large grasshopper on my hand as we walked the trail and the little fella made his way to my shoulder and sat there for a good way down the trail before I let him slink off onto a post.

:D

[Corey]

Eeeyaih! Doesn't that grasshopper know the dangers of hitchhiking?