ABloung2 - Ok, I bought one...

[Intrigued]

I know, I know... a sucker for a TV advert. (don't tell the networks!)

It took just a few minutes to setup. It seems to work pretty good. It does a better job at keeping my tailbone in a more comfortable position (a nurse, friend recommended this unit for a few reasons, the tailbone-off-the-floor being the #1 reason).

I got it for under a hundred bucks, new and free shipping.

We'll see how this contraption does over the next few weeks, months.

*I do have a pilate mat, but it wore through pretty quick (thinning in the middle) and I have tried other products (to hard of rubber).

[Corey]

In my case I work sitting on the floor, never have any problem with anything. It's just chairs that get you. See here's the thing the nurse probably mentioned, your tailbone is made for sitting, that's what it does. Or at least it's your best option for sitting. That's its gig. Although of course they also figure that the human body isn't really originally designed for upright walking, but that's a whole different issue.

Using seat adjusters which shift your weight off your tailbone when sitting are a recipe for deeper problems, i.e. the weight is now being supported by areas which weren't neccesarily intended by nature to act as support for your body weight. It doesn't "fix" anything, it just postpones it at best, and you know what happens to postponed stuff when it eventually comes back, it tends to be worse. Think of it as a roof shingle which is starting to flap in the wind. You can patch it down for a time but eventually the root problem needs to be addressed or larger problems will evolve out of it.

A lot of ads brag that your weight is now more evenly distributed but that's a misnomer because muscles and joints are not evenly distributed across your back. Your back gets siginificantly weaker as you move away from the "primary mover" muscles and into the "secondary supporting" muscles. When people sustain back muscle injuries, they tend to occur in these secondary muscles, especially where they meet, overlap, or connect with other tissue. So essentially it's the weak points you have to worry about and corrective seating tends to redistribute weight to these points.

I've been told to avoid corrective seating by an occupational therapist, so be cautious anyhow. :)

You mentioned you are a great big guy. I've read in a few different medical books that guys from average height to tall height actually have roughly the same "size" spine, so generally the height difference is made up in the extremeties. Anyhow in a lot of cases real big guys get back hassles as they age, even a lot of aging athletes have a variety of hassles. FWIW From everything I've read (lots) the only thing which "cures this permanently" is yoga. About 40 minutes per day pretty much ensures a longer healthier life generally free from small ailments or injuries.

When I used to box a lot I was the only one in our gym who did yoga. Lots of guys used to laugh at me outside the ring, but not a single one laughed at me inside the ring. :) Once you get over the stigma, you find that yoga is simply a superior form of maintenance. There is no better way to improve and maintain a spine that I'm aware of and I suspect your family doctor will agree with me on that if you ask him/her. :yes

[Intrigued]

In my case I work sitting on the floor, never have any problem with anything. It's just chairs that get you. See here's the thing the nurse probably mentioned, your tailbone is made for sitting, that's what it does. Or at least it's your best option for sitting. That's its gig. Although of course they also figure that the human body isn't really originally designed for upright walking, but that's a whole different issue.

Using seat adjusters which shift your weight off your tailbone when sitting are a recipe for deeper problems, i.e. the weight is now being supported by areas which were never intended by nature to act as support for your weight. It doesn't "fix" anything, it just postpones it at best. A lot of ads brag that your weight is now more evenly distributed but that's a misnomer because muscles and joints are not evenly distributed. Your back gets siginificantly weaker as you move away from the "primary mover" muscles and into the "secondary supporting" muscles. When people sustain back muscle injuries, I believe they usually occur in these secondary muscles, especially where they meet, overlap, or connect with other tissue. So essentially it's the weak points you have to worry about and corrective seating tends to redistribute weight to these points.

I've been told to avoid corrective seating by an occupational therapist, so be cautious anyhow. :)

You mentioned you are a great big guy. I've read in a few different medical books that guys from average height to tall height actually have roughly the same "size" spine, so generally the height difference is made up in the extremeties. Anyhow in a lot of cases real big guys get back hassles as they age, even a lot of aging athletes have a variety of hassles. FWIW From everything I've read (lots) the only thing which "cures" this permanently is yoga... About 40 minutes per day pretty much ensures a longer healthier life generally free from small ailments or injuries.

This unit is for strengthing your stomach region muscles. It's an exercise unit not a seat adjustment sort of contraction.

http://www.fitnessquest.com/images/alli.gif

There's a picture. I know, it's a TV gimic... but, I thought I would break down and give it a whirl nontheless, per the nurses suggestion.

We'll see how it goes.

[Corey]

Yikes. Intrigued. At this point I realize there is very little chance you will listen to what I'm about to say but I'll say it anyways. That item *will* harm you unless you are currently in superb shape. Only people in athletic condition should be using that item for sure, and even them probably not.

Just think about what it is doing in terms of your physiology. Picture it in your mind. Imagine where the load is going. Your spine is a lever in this position. Where is the very last point on any lever which you would place a load?

Anyhow I'll spare you the lecture, you shouldn't go within forty yards of that thing though... :o

Just let me share something with you. I boxed for many years, at a high level too. At the time I spent over and hour each day lifting weights. I developed a new excercise called "roman bench flies" which consisted of doing dumbell flies on an incline bench which has the top half cut off. So in other words you are doing dumbell flies on a bench but the bench cuts off in mid-back.

I attribute that excercise with a lot of benefits. But it is also one of the most dangerous excercises (other than neck weight-straps) which I have ever seen. It is almost exactly like the picture you have shown me here. On other words what I am saying to you is that this item you are showing has a *very very large* capacity and potential to cause grave damage on a very base level. You are playing with fire I think.

The human spine is not designed to work past 180 degrees. It's OK to stretch beyond that, but to add any load whatsoever, even your own body weight, is playing with fire. The only exception being someone who is an elite athlete, but even then... I'm 99.9% sure if you show that pic to any doctor or therapist they will advise you to avoid this machine for now.

Anyhow I know what you mean about the relation between stomach and back, I've read lots on the relationship between injuries in these areas. Nonetheless I think you will find that this machine has just as profound an effect on your back as your stomach. And in closing just let me mention a much superior, less injury prone substitute for your stomach. No machine required. This is know as "boxing sit ups".

1. Lie on your back on the floor.
2. Bring your knees up until you feel comfortable, i.e. "situp position"
3. *Do not* clasp your hands behind your neck, keep them clasped very loosely across your belly or to your sides, do not tense your hands as you excercise.
4. Now raise up just a few inches and then go back down but not all the way, stay an inch or two off the floor. In other words just do the first 10% of a normal situp and don't go all the way back down, i.e. don't let your shoulders touch the ground once you've started a set until you've finished that set.
5. "One set" is defined by your point of exhaustion, never count reps. 5 sets is the maximum per day recommended. 3 is the minimum.
6. Repeat #4. Don't "rock" though, i.e. you should be perfectly still from the hip down. Eventually you will get pretty good speed and will be able to burst out a group of these in a few seconds. Increase the height of each rep as you feel comfortable.
7. *Very important*. Do it in this position until you are tired and then "switch sides" and do it once with your left leg crossed over your right and then once with your right leg crossed over your left, in each case twisting your upper body slightly as you raise up so the opposite elbow comes around as though to meet the respective crossed leg. This gets your abs, even the very hard ones to get, and it also gets things like your lats and neck to some extent.
8. Think of it as 3 different excercises, "middle position", "right leg over" and "left leg over". Try to always do even numbers of each over a given day/session. It sounds odd but try to stay relaxed while doing these, and keep your breathing as even as possible. Never gulp air.
9. You won't get injured doing this as long as you quit as soon as you feel tired or strained. Capacity will build up fast if you do it each day. So on the first day you might only get a few reps out. No biggie. The benefits of this excercise are proportionally scaled, that's why it's not dangerous. In other words the gains are always 100% relative to where you are currently at.
10. Your back and stomach will improve together. Neither will exceed a natural balance with the other such as occurs when using machines.

Doesn't sound like much but it's the best there is. Doesn't look like much either but just a few tiny minutes per day and you will be a rock, I guarantee it. I learned it firsthand from Ken Lakusta (http://www.boxrec.com/boxer_display.php?boxer_id=001093). Ken has fought George Foreman, Larry Holmes, Tommy Morrison and many more. His knowledge of this sort of thing is very deep, he's travelled the world and chatted/trained with some of the top trainers in the business. I can tell you that, cynical as I am, I have tried hundreds of different back and stomach excercises and it always came back to this one.

Another really good one that's quick and easy yet ultra-effective is to hang from something like a chin bar and then curl your knees up toward your stomach. This one is basically a more appropriate variation on the gravity boot thing. I avoid machines, they have a tendency to injure and not be very effective anyhow, i.e. excercising your arm in a fixed arc for example has no bearing on reality, it just overemphasizes the primary movers and neglects the secondary supporters. Reality is unpredicatable so training should be too. :)

Anyhow enough of me, sorry for the rant. Either way I wish you only the very best. :)

[Intrigued]

Actually, I appreciate and am listening. ;-)

Thanks Corey. I went and took a surf over to the mayoclinic.com to see what they had to say and I found more information that I had previously missed totally, plus a 10 question quiz. I only got 5 of 10 right. An eye opener for sure.

Like, with back pain it's best to have a pillow between your knees, whilst you lay on your side with your legs bent somewhat.

I chose laying on your back.

Or, that a stiff bed is not best, but that a medium stiff is.

I chose a stiff (which was correct until recent double-blind sided tests revealed the latter).

[Corey]

I used to get a pinched nerve in my lower back from time to time. Sudden crippling back pain which would lay me up for days/weeks at a time. It was terrible. At the time I was in top athletic shape too, i.e. single digit body fat. So I knew for certain that the problem wasn't excercise.

I started sleeping on a futon.

I pretty much credit that with the fact that it's been many years since I have had any back pains whatsoever. Who knows though, I might be wrong. Anyhow the one I use is about medium stiff and it's great. Cheap too. Can't say enough good things about futons. I can't sleep in beds, can't get comfortable.

At one point I travelled around a bit in a Garth Brooks tribute band, that was the worst few trips of my life. Bad hotel beds are the worst thing ever. You can't sleep all night and then you get up tired and your back is thrown out. And you have to do a high energy show. I learned at that time that you are basically better off sleeping on a floor than a bad bed. Although unfortunately the quality of the floors in these particular hotels was, well let's just say, err, ahem...

Sleeping always on your back as you mention may not be that great. I think that's fairly rare too, not sure what causes that. If I were you one day per week I'd have a couple glasses of wine and stay up extra late so that you end up sleeping long and lazy. That'll get you flopping. :)

Or how about this? And I *know* you'll like this one because you are an inventor at heart. The Pavlovian approach. Get one of those alarm-in-a-can things which go "WHOOOOOOT!" when you press the button and rig it up to your pajama waistband so that whenever you roll onto your back at night it goes "WHOOOOOT!" in your wife's ear causing her to roll over and slug you in the bread basket thereby auto-returning you to your side for a spell. It's basically just a simple pulley and lever apparatus. A few weeks of that should do the trick. :yes

Anyhow here's the **big thing** to remember about back problems. They take time to develop and they also take time to fix. There's no way to fix it overnight. Yoga can fix this permanently but it will tahe months of hlaf-hour-per-day dedication to do it. The upside? With yoga when you fix this, it will be permanent as long as you keep up the half hour (to an hour) per day. The cost is zero, you don't need any gear, it can be done in a very small space, and there is no downside other than the occasional snicker from buddies who hear about you doing yoga, but then you just have to remind them about people like the Gracies, arguably the best group of fighters on earth.

http://www.grapplearts.com/Yoga-for-Grappling.htm

http://www.grapplearts.com/Images/Rickson-twist-on-beach.jpg

They didn't get that way by accident. It all comes down to the goods. If it didn't work, I'd be the very first person criticizing it. The US military would not be hiring these people (http://www.gracieacademy.com/programs/graplemilitary/?p=1) on a lark. I can tell you one thing. To this very day the only person in my weight class who ever regularly defeated me in submission training was a Yoga guy. It's a holistic system. Nothing gets strengthened without everything underneath it being strengthened too. Including the mental stuff even.

I remember one time I had his ankle bent all the way back around 180 degrees and he didn't even make a peep. (normal people tap at half that or less) Next thing you know he reached *behind his back* and somehow managed to get me in a headlock (even though I was behind him???) and before you know it he submitted me by craning my neck upward. Ironically the very anchor I held on his lower body in order to sink the ankle was the very anchor he used against me to lever my neck. In other words I defeated myself, all he did was flow into it like water, and he did it instinctually without any effort at all. Oh yeah did I mention that I was 24 years old and training 15 rounds per day at the time whereas he was almost 60 and had never fought a single person in his entire life. :) That was the week I started yoga. :yes

I've since evolved in a direction which doesn't include any training/fighting, but the value of yoga is still major. It's all about health.

The only injuries occur when trying to stretch your limits. Anyhow here's a low cost, all-in-one definitive yoga course. A 300 week course in theory but no one I know has ever managed to master it all, i.e. my roomate has been at this system everday for 30 years and still not gotten the entire "300 week" course mastered, so ostensibly this is the only tool you will ever need. Everyone should own "Light on Yoga", it's by BKS Iyengar, arguably one of the top living experts on the topic and a real tough guy to boot. He is well known for his "staff sargeant" like demeanor:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0805210318/002-4597400-9963226

[Corey]

One more thing I thought I'd add because it compares directly to the photo of your new machine. This is the proper way to excercise your stomach/back past 180 degrees. Again you just need to analyze the posture to see what I mean. There is very little risk for injury in this one but the benefits are actually quite far reaching. It acts as a flexibilty excercise as well as a strength excercise to a wide variety of areas. It also promotes circulation and even breathing. It doesn't look like much but it's probably one of the ten most important excercises I can think of. All wrestlers and boxers include the bridge in their circuit.

http://www.grapplearts.com/Images/Article-Images/Yoga/Bridge-Yoga-Stretch.jpg

[Intrigued]

:yes

My wife hits me anyway while I sleep... then says, "oh, I was in a dream!"

Yaaaa, right! Ha! I bet she has knocked me out, save for I am asleep and I can not prove this theory! Baaah!

Serious note:

I have had one trainer, nurse (same person), and I personally have read quite abit about Yoga and it's benefits across the board. I believe I would benefit from a closer look. Thanks.

I use to run and had gotten up to 10 miles and then walking back. That was 1997. Then I got married and decided to stay home instead of the usual single-guy activities (snicker). I remember yelling at myself in the middle of a run (thankfully way out from any houses, town, and people... haha). Weird? Suppose. But, then I just took it as self motivation and thought the sound of my voice was as good as some drill sargent yelling. :D

Back then I use to get the occasional siatic sharp pain, but after I would take a break it was good to go (let the imflammasion go down). Now, it does not take near as much to get to that state. It's not that I am carrying around a lot of extra weight (but about 20 lbs. more than when I was in the police academy).

I'm putting the blame not on myself entirely... no sir... it's the days (ah, couple years) that started this whole, "sit on my butt hour after hour".

*Shakes fist to the Online Gaming gahds*

Thanks Corey for the info. I'll stack it up with what I swept up off the Net floor and see what I can cook up. (5 second rule!)

[Corey]

Yaaaa, right! Ha! I bet she has knocked me out, save for I am asleep and I can not prove this theory! Baaah!

HAR! :)

Just remember I-man, any minutes per day is better than no minutes per day. The most important thing is consistency so you have to pick something you enjoy or you won't remain motivated. Don't get snagged with the "if I can't do it 100% I won't do it at all for now" thing that so many of us fall prey to. A five minute walk will activate all sorts of processes. My roomate has a neat thing where he jogs around one city block every day (so total of 4 blocks). No more, no less, but he *never misses* a day. So it takes all of 5 minutes per day to do this but actually the benefits are very good because it ensures that all those processes get activated everyday. A vigorous 5 minute jog per day is *profoundly* more beneficial than no jog at all, so much so that you can't even really compare the two. Sounds hard to believe but it's true.

Everyone can afford 5 minutes. :)

The main thing is motivation. I like your yelling idea, one thing all successful people have in common is the ability to develop all sorts of inner games like that to stay motivated. The only challenges which matter in this universe are purely internal. The people who scare me are the ones who don't yell. If I saw some guy running down a country road yelling at himself I would think to myself, "Right on brother..." :)

[Intrigued]

If I saw some guy running down a country road yelling at himself I would think to myself, "Right on brother..." :)
Right... ha! ha!

*I do miss jogging. I have pictures of when I was around seven (7) and I use to run in them lovely flat (read: no arch support) footed Converse tennis shoes. And I use to like to run around a particular oval (not a track, it was located on a larger trek of land, that's another story though).

:yes