Yet another naive video lighting question...

[Corey]

Thought I'd start a new thread. Ok another naive question. I just lit up these lamps (one at a time since I only have one power cord) and they are super bright/hot. They throw off heat for many feet. :) So anyhow here's what I'm wondering:

1. When they are properly arranged, will there be a problem with the subject squinting from the brightness or is there a way to set them up so they don't shine in their eyes?

2. What is generally the minimum sized room you would use when operating 3 omnis.

3. What are the standard ways of venting heat without creating excessive fan noise? maybe I'll have to grab a squirrel fan and a stretch of flexiduct to "suck" the air out? At any rate in our living room area, one thing's for sure, 3 omnis will create too much heat to work under so I have to figure out something efficient and controllable, i.e. one of those small greenhouse systems which auto-vent above x degrees. They're actually super cheap up here nowadays.

4. The lamps say that they carry a UV risk, i.e. for red skin, eye damage, etc. It mentions that clear glass can filter this. Any words on UV filtering?

5. Gels dampen the glare but I was wondering if they reduce the amount of light significantly?

Thanks for any answers. :)

Perhaps I will have to use my friend's studio after all, at least over there the heat won't be a problem with the 16' ceilings and sheer size of the place...

[yosik]

1. When they are properly arranged, will there be a problem with the subject squinting from the brightness or is there a way to set them up so they don't shine in their eyes?


If you can use height, setting the lights way above the talent (15 to 18 feet), you will probably solve this problem.
If you can't and you are shooting DV, you may be able to go with indirect lights (bounce from walls or styrofoam panels) and still have enough intensity.


2. What is generally the minimum sized room you would use when operating 3 omnis.


No less than 12 feet. Here too, using indirect lighting might help in small rooms.



4. The lamps say that they carry a UV risk, i.e. for red skin, eye damage, etc. It mentions that clear glass can filter this. Any words on UV filtering?


Any glass will effectivelly filter out UVs (try and get a tan through a window...)


5. Gels dampen the glare but I was wondering if they reduce the amount of light significantly?


Special gels for film/video can work wonders. Here too, if you shoot in DV, you will need less light than Analog shooting, so it could actually be helpfull to use gels.

Good luck, Corey.

Yossi

[Corey]

try and get a tan through a window...

Will do! I'll give it a shot this weekend and let you know how it goes. :) Thanks for the tips Yossi.

I think I'm going to have to buy a few reflector stands and try bouncing some light. Today I did a test setup with my roomate Marv and I think I nearly blinded him. :)

So I guess with bouncing light, using a light meter becomes mandatory... Do I just need a spot meter, or is there something specific I should be looking for in a light meter?

[eric_darling]

Light meters are totally unnecessary if you are shooting with video. A few cinematographers who have migrated to video prefer to continue using them, but you're not laying off to film - video is electronic. You have all the feedback necessary in an external color monitor and your viewfinder's calibration information. Your budget sounds way too tight to consider it a necessity.

[Corey]

OK, I'll leave that for now. So is that what they call "setting the white point"? One thing about this camera, the manual is just terrible. It contains no non-obvious info basically. :)

[eric_darling]

Setting a white balance is simply telling the color chip(s) what it should render white as in terms of YUV color space. It really should be set when you have a proper exposure - that is to say that if your iris is left on the manual setting, and you point the lens at a 100% white object and exposed for white at 100 IRE (many viewfinders offer "zebra" pattern indicators to help you know when you've hit that level), when you push the manual white balance button, it will set white for the current light conditions.

Videographers play with white balance to "warm up" images often, which is desirable in many situations. There are a variety of ways to manipulate the white balance of a camera. I purchased a set of Warm Cards (http://www.warmcards.com) to help me in situations where I need to do this quickly.

[Corey]

Wow, those are neat. Decent price too, I'll definitely send off for a pack of those. Do they work with cameras like mine?

Thanks much for the tip, those warmcards really look like they are going to make a big difference. :yes

[eric_darling]

They work with any camera that will take a manual white balance, yes. It's a shortcut kind of a trick - and they're particularly good for a couple of tough jobs. But don't consider as a necessity - we certainly don't use them on every shoot. Getting a white balance is part of video 101, but playing with it can really be interesting.

[Corey]

I see, thanks. I'll buy a set of the warmcards just to have around, the price is decent. Speaking of Video 101, any beginners books (or web sites) you would recommend or have heard of? I think if I read through 1-2 really good basic books and tried out the stuff as I go along, I can probably build a decent foundation.

This place seems neat, I *LOVE* their "flowchart style" top menu:

http://www.dvcreators.net/discuss/index.php

I like this little "Skycrane Jr." thing, nice idea:

http://www.dvcreators.net/products/skycranejr.html

[Derek]

I've never done anything about/with white balance. Having said that, i've never really done anything remotely pro to warrant it. In the 'look at my family snaps' type stuff, who cares about that?

Sounds like i need to look into it anyhow.

[Corey]

Couple places that seem to have tons of good reading/tutorials:

http://www.cybercollege.com/tvp_ind.htm
http://www.dvcreators.net

Now to get reading... Went through some of the very basic lighting stuff today, finally starting to understand it a bit. :)

[eric_darling]

Bad white balance is the reason that some videos that you've seen look too blue or too yellow/orange. Many current models offer a decent auto tracking white balance, so you don't have to mess with it. But I personally shy away from that kind of "feature," since I consider more of a "limitation."

[Corey]

I'll keep that in mind, thanks. It's been a brutally busy week on our end, but starting next week I will set aside an hour per day minimum for working on basic video learning projects. I think I'll buy a white box, they had a good one down there for $99. That'll give me a nice tight area to create and observe some of these lighting setups in an easily observable little environment, whilst simultaneously getting some decent product shots...

[Corey]

OK I did a bit of reading today. Just curious Eric, do you think I might be better off getting a fresnel light (http://www.adorama.com/LLFR111.html) for my third light instead of another omni?

[eric_darling]

I think so, yes. It will add some flexibility to your kit. For one, fresnels work better as sources for patterns - you can shine the light through a pattern and it will project clean, even slivers of light through the pattern. Open face, parabolically reflected lights will show their reflector's pattern, leading to an objectionable effect. Fresnels are also easier to control in general - spill is less of an issue.

They cool slower, though. And they can be less intense at the same wattages.

[Corey]

Yeah, the Lowel fresnel I'm looking at is 650, seems like they match that with the 500, so I can see what you mean about open faced lights being a bit brighter. I was thinking if I grab that fresnel and an umbrella for the omni I will have a starting point. Got to get a reflector panel or two also... We're in a fairly small room so I can probably bounce for fill in a lot of cases.

Thanks Eric! :yes

[Corey]

Yay! Got the shotgun mic sorted out! Turns out it was just a bad battery. That was a brand new Duracell battery and it had no power. I noticed the noise sounded like low battery noise so I swapped it with a new one from the exact same multi-pack and it works fine now. Still can't seem to get high enough quality audio out of it for doing what I need with this pre-amp but at least it's working.

Odd thing I just discovered about the APEX shotgun mics is that they are "battery only", I assumed since the pre-amp had phantom power on that the mic would override the battery but no dice. With these mics you can't use phantom power, it's one AA battery or no signal.

[Corey]

BTW Eric as per the Mackie mixer, I did a little research, turns out this one is the one to get in that price range because not only do you get a fantastic board, but you can add on the firewire I/O for $400 at anytmie and then you have 18 channels of audio streaming into your computer. (16 channels in and 2 out for control room monitors) Works great as an analog board or as a DAW interface:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/srs7/search/detail/base_pid/634267?src=3WBZ4DS

This is a premium board for just over $500 with top notch mic-pres and a whole slew of bells and whistles. I talked to the manager of our local music store about it, he's a true audio guru and he says these boards sound great, with superb "headroom summing". Can't be beat! :yes

My only beefs are the 60mm faders and the fact that you can't pipe the audio "back", i.e. use it as a front-end mixer for your DAW. The Behiringer BFC (motorized 100mm faders) and BCR I already have are great for that, and they're cheap too, so it's no biggie but it would have been good if all the firewire channels were 'two way". Anyhow I'm going to grab one at some point.