Does this video lighting kit seem adequate for basic stuff?

[Corey]

I located a kit which I can buy locally from a single source without having to know much about lighting, just curious what the experts think. Is this enough lighting to do a basic one-on-one interview indoors? Here's the product page:

http://www.lowel.com/kits/goAllPro_sm.html

At my local dealer:

http://www.vistek.ca/details/detail_over.asp?eCode=216998&TYPE=&Specs=N&Box=N

I was thinking about grabbing the one with the hard case. Any thoughts or caveats?

[Corey]

Also very curious about this one:

http://www.vistek.ca/details/detail_over.asp?eCode=204602&TYPE=&Specs=N&Box=N

Would it be good as a portable solution for lighting small-room interviews, i.e. for Desmond at IR main office?

[Corey]

What about these? I keep hearing these referred to as a trusted industry workhorse.

http://www.henrys.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ItemsDisplay?catalogId=10101&departmentId=10410&itemID=44038&categoryId=10442

At my dealer:

http://www.vistek.ca/details/detail_over.asp?eCode=116507&TYPE=&Specs=N&Box=N

[AXXESS]

I use a Lowel kit consistently... similar to the kit you have linked - but with the addition of the Rifa-lite..

Rifa Lite (http://www.lowel.com/rifa/index.html)

It provides incredibly good (soft) light - very hard to make a mistake. I have also found the Lowel kit to be durable and problem free. :yes

[Corey]

Nice! What size Rifa do you use? Does it make the room you are shooting in terribly hot? I'm looking at the dual redheads and thinking, "Dang", I'm not sure I cherish the promise of baking under those babies. I'll be like a McDonalds french fry after about 20 minutes. (with a dash of salt of course)

[AXXESS]

I use the LC 55 (http://www.lowel.com/rifa/rifa55.html) with a 500w lamp.

Surprisingly, it is not *that* hot... the front diffuser keeps any of the direct radiant heat for going directly on your subject. Since the lamp itself is housed inside the hood, it actually is very user friendly. The umbrella light and the barndoor lights do get hot... not so much that they heat an entire room, but you certainly would not want to get too close. The lamps on the other lights are shielded so you cannot directly touch them. The lamp with the umbrella mount uses an aluminum mesh shield over the lamp.

The only issue really I ever run into is trying not to bump into the stands while moving back and forth from the camera to setting up the subject. :)

[Corey]

Yeah I've been in a roomful of tripod stands before, not fun. :) I notived lowel has some other kits aimed directly at DV production, i.e.:

http://www.vistek.ca/details/detail_over.asp?eCode=213596&TYPE=&Specs=N&Box=N

I wonder if that's a better bet?

[AXXESS]

Heres the kit I use:

link (http://www.lowel.com/kits/DVcreator55.html)

It has served me well. I would certainly consider the Rifa in the kit if you are going with a kit. Especially for interview use... an extremely forgiving light! The hardshell case is a nice touch too. :yes

[Corey]

Yes that Rifa is certainly a "must have" light. I like the term "forgiving" in that context. Hee! :)

[eric_darling]

I think 500 W is a good minimum number to look at for fresnels. The Rifa is very nice, and it packs well with the Lowel kits that I've seen. I use something similar, but it's a third-party product, which is a more versatile system:
http://www.chimeralighting.com/products/film.cfm

The 250W instruments that you're considering are underpowered for key lights. You can probably get away with something like that for a back light, but it's underpowered for anything in front of your subject.

The one major drawback to the Lowel lights are their stands - the ones that aren't exceedingly flimsy are too prone to stick in various positions, making them difficult to manage on set sometimes. But other than that, I love their lights. They cool quicker than any competitors I've ever used, too - particularly the open faced models (DP, Omni). And they are indeed durable - nice quality instruments. Be aware that the kit you choose will list maximum wattage per instrument. In my DP kit, I have two lamped with 1 K bulbs and one lamped with a 500 K bulb. They are rated at 1 K maximum. Always have spares on hand!

[Corey]

Yeah, I didn't think 250W would do much. What about those redheads Eric? Vistek has a Chimera soft light in their clearance bin:

http://www.vistek.ca/clearance/

Is that a good deal? (it's in CAN funds)

[eric_darling]

Corey -

I'm sure you'd be saving some money if you needed that big a bank, but it's too big for your needs. Go with their Video Pro bank in the Small (up to 1K) or XSmall (up to 750W) size. For a Lowel DP head, I really like the Small size. For anything smaller, the XS size should work well.
http://www.chimeralighting.com/products/dspproduct.cfm?productid=5

Honestly, I've never used an Ianiro light. They aren't so popular in the US for some reason. I hesitate because I have no experience with them - I can neither recommend or advise against.

[Corey]

OK gotcha. Thanks. What about this thing:

http://www.vistek.ca/details/detail_over.asp?eCode=204602&TYPE=&Specs=N&Box=N

Is that a useful light? It says it "adds sparkle to the eyes". I'm a little worried about that in Desmond's case because he's already stretching the capacity of our in-house charisma meter, and we don't need any swoon related law suits. It's David Cassidy all over again. We add a little sparkle to Desmond's eyes and the next thing you know some 10 year old hits her head trying to get a better look.

Also one more question, if you had no choice but to use a single portable light to help light office interviews which one would it be?

[eric_darling]

It's not that I couldn't find a good use for that light, but I think better choices exist that accomplish what that light was designed to do. A nice 1K fresnel (Mole Richardson "Baby", Arri Junior 1000 Plus), or open face (Lowel DP) along with a soft bank like a Rifa, or better yet, a Chimera, would do worlds better.

You ask an age-old question - a minimalist DP kind of question that is the stuff of many a post-shoot beer. If I could only have one light.... For me, it's a no-brainer. It would be an Arri Junior 1000 Plus with Chimera speed ring and Small Video Pro Chimera light bank. At least give me my accessories (scrims, diffusion, gels, C-47s, etc.). ;)
http://www.arri.com/entry/products.htm

[Corey]

least give me my accessories

No dice. Nonetheless curious what would those entail for a typical "talking head" type office interview? :D

Seriously though, no dice on the accesories. Just kidding, OK seriously this time, I really appreciate your help. Here's the deal Eric. I got $2700 to get set up. The GL2 is $3200 plus tax. It breaks my heart but I'm decided to go with the Panasonic for now, with the hope that I can use it, along with some decent lighting, to put out some much better Speedy CDs which will hopefully, in turn, finance the GL2. If I stretch myself and get the GL2 now it'll be pointless because it'll be months until I can afford any lighting or neccesary accessories.

I'm also going to use the Panasonic to put together some promo vids for our new products and free instructional vids for this web site.

Anyhow just thought I'd add that so you know that I'm still taking your advice albeit circuitously. I've decided that 2005 is all about aquiring new gear, a GL2, a Cintiq18, a DV editing box, etc. so I need to get out lots of new Speedy CDs fast and I figured this would be the best way.

The Panasonic seems to be like this, under optimal conditions the video is very good, superb for web/CD. Under non-optimal conditions I believe that drops off steeply, i.e. once you start using the built in image stabilization or low light modes, etc. So I think with some good lights, a tripod, and a bit of advice from you it should be feasible to wrestle some decent beginner stuff out of it. Good enough for CD ROM usage anyhow. Then hopefully by about July I can grab a GL2 and I will have some basic fundamentals in place so I can start using it too.

This camera has an included zoom remote too, so that might be useful.

http://www.vistek.ca/details/detail_specs.asp?eCode=215919&Specs=True&Box=N

[eric_darling]

No dice. Nonetheless curious what would those entail for a typical "talking head" type office interview?
Har! I dig.

OK...
1) You're going to need a nice high-guage extension cord ("stinger") of at least 25 feet for each light, depending on your typical distance from the nearest wall outlet. Remember, if you're using more than one light, make sure you don't overload any circuits.

2) You're going to want diffusion material (Rosco tough spun, opal).

3) To attach such, you'll need a handful of wood clothespins ("C-47s").

4) You'll also want a basic gel kit (again, Rosco is fine - at least a 1/4 blue gel and a 1/2 blue gel to correct for competing day light that might be spilling into the office, and perhaps some minus green to correct for flourescent lights in an office setting). Again, those attach with C-47s.

5) You'll want a set of barn doors, but those should come with your light.

6) You may want to pick up a roll of black wrap to help with additional control of spill.

7) Scrims are really important for fresnels - these cut down on the intensity of the light, and can be used in conjunction with diffusion. Learning to control light is crucial - moving the instrument first, then fine tuning with scrims and then diffusion as the case requires.

8) Spare lamps (bulbs). At least one on hand at all times.

Those are the basics that I can think of in the moment. If you can get there, you're in business.

I totally understand your position. I also totally respect the fact that you have continued to give this endeavor such serious forethought and research. That kind of attention to detail will pay off given your set of circumstances. I think it's fair to say that you have caught the bug.

[Corey]

OK I see where you're coming from, you're trying to maintain the most control possible. For sure I will be extra careful with the power. I'm highly paranoid about electrical fires.

Ok I think I have what i need to go in and buy some basic lights. I'll go with one of these to start:

http://www.vistek.ca/details/detail_box.asp?eCode=212860&Specs=N&Box=True

That gives me 2 X 500's and 1 X 750. Should be OK for starting off. I'll be working in a very small room for now. And I won't need to tear down once I've set up. I'll try and grab a Rifa 55 in month 2. I'll try to get some reflective panels together right away also.

Im going to probably rent a really good lav mic for now but I guess I'll have to get a small board or line mixer for interviews also, I want to do a couple instructional guitar video CDs, so I'm going to have to sort all this out, i.e. guitar amp + voice + background metronome/music from the comp = trickiness. Probably I'll just use the computer as my mixer and route the vocal/guitar/music stereo mix out to the mic in on the camera. Actually that allows me to use XLR mics too, so hmmmm.

Anyhow thanks for the tips Eric. In gratitude I will be dedicating my second and fourth productions to your pet dog. Three years from now we'll look back at this and laugh at what a complete newby I was.

BTW FWIW I get this same thing *all the time* from people, i.e. I have only $600, how can I buy a great guitar and amp which will be perfect for performance, practice, and studio recording? Of course the answer is, "you can't". But nonetheless I do what you did, my best. I try to piece them together with a used Strat and a small used amp. And, although it isn't perfect, as you say, "They catch the bug" and eventually it all finds it's own level. So anyhow I appreciate where you are coming from, it's been a big help to me. And when I'm a big famous director and they ask me about Eric Darling, I'll get all serious and look them straight in the eye and say it very proudly, "Never heard of the guy. I'm completely self taught. Self taught I told you!" :)

[eric_darling]

Totally my pleasure, Corey. FWIW, the Lowel Tota light is not one of my favs. It's hard to control, and it's HOT - that joker will melt down any gels that get anywhere near it. I rescind compliments to the Lowel product line when it comes to the Tota. It's really only useful if you want to bring the entire ambiance of a room up an f-stop or two. Generally, that's not something I want to do in interview situations. The two Omnis in that kit are much more useful, however.

Yes, it is all about light. That's really the essence of video/film. I had a professor in school who drilled that into my head, fortunately. One of those key lessons I've managed to gather in preparing to understand my job. I'm also fortunate to regularly work alongside a few guys who have forgotten more than I'll ever know in this regard. I figure it's always wise practice to surround myself with people who are better at my job than I am. If you can find a pro who is willing to afford an hour to help you with the first job or two, that would be helpful, I'm sure.

Anyway, I'm certainly not the only voice of experience on video production around the forums, from what I've gathered. Axxess and Yosik seem like they are both well versed on the topic. I'd love to see demos from all y'all. I bet I'll learn a thing or two just watching.

[Corey]

Actually I do have a pro guy to help me in the beginning. So that will be good, he's more of a producer than a camerman but he seems to know the basics. Definitely he'll be a big asset getting started. I also know another guy who is a master of all things photo/video but he's always extra busy so I doubt I'll be able to get much of his time, nonetheless I'm sure I can get him to assist me on my first project or two...

As to the Tota, OK I'll just buy individual lights then. I have no specific attachement to the "kit" concept. I have a $1,500 CAN lighting budget so I should be able to get three good starter lights. Which three basic lights would you reccomend as my initial triumvirate? No sense in buying a kit with an unruly Tota after all... Here's the list I have to work with BTW

http://www.vistek.ca/video/lighting.asp

Anyhow I agree with you about Yossi and AXXESS, each a giant in their own right. I can hardly wait to see how this all takes shape. I should probably document this process online too, for other designers wishing to get started in DV with a tight budget. :yes

[eric_darling]

Well, the Omni light is going for $254 and change, so I say get three of those, plus stands and try to find a good deal on a Chimera XS and speed ring. Perhaps eBay might bear fruit? Also, a nice case for the lights is in order. Hard cases are the best.

You should still have some dough left over for the other various and sundries already discussed.

You can find the gels/diffusion and other grip/lighting gear at your local dealer, to be sure. Or you can save a few bucks via mail order. B&H Photo Video or Markertek are the biggest.

[Corey]

Perfect. OK that's what I'll do. Thanks. For now I'm sticking with stuff I can find locally just for returnability in the case of failure. Vistek doesn't seem to have anything from chimera other than that clearance item but I'm pretty sure I can dig one up if I look around, Cowlgary is a fairly large city.

Now, hopefully Vistek has 3 omnis in stock. They are a tad bad on their stock at times. I've got my fingers crossed. :)

IOU one Eric, I'll make sure you get comped a copy of my, "Advanced Moshing Techniques" video. :)

[Corey]

OK got the Panasonic GS200 video camera today. Pretty good, the quality and features seem impressive so far. Definitely a tripod-only camera though, shaky on handheld shots.

Can't say enough bad things about the customer service at Vistek. It was so profoundly poor as to border on the exotic. And of course as a full scale video store/showroom with about a dozen employees, they have no Lowel lights in stock. :) In fact they have almost zero lighting in stock, maybe a half dozen highly specialized pieces. I was going to order them but Vistek offered a 6 week delivery window so I took a pass. I have to get out the yellow pages and hunt down some lights. 6 weeks! :)

Got a shotgun mic, and everything I need to interface it with the camera. Should be good, although I don't have any experience with shotguns so I need some practice using it. Seems pretty good for vocal applications for what it cost:

http://www.8thstreet.com/product.asp?ProductCode=21474&Category=Microphones

[Intrigued]

OK got the Panasonic GS200 video camera today. Pretty good, the quality and features seem impressive so far. Definitely a tripod-only camera though, shaky on handheld shots.

Can't say enough bad things about the customer service at Vistek. It was so profoundly poor as to border on the exotic. And of course as a full scale video store/showroom with about a dozen employees, they have no Lowel lights in stock. :) In fact they have almost zero lighting in stock, maybe a half dozen highly specialized pieces. I was going to order them but Vistek offered a 6 week delivery window so I took a pass. I have to get out the yellow pages and hunt down some lights. 6 weeks! :)

Got a shotgun mic, and everything I need to interface it with the camera. Should be good, although I don't have any experience with shotguns so I need some practice using it. Seems pretty good for vocal applications for what it cost:

http://www.8thstreet.com/product.asp?ProductCode=21474&Category=Microphones
You did "ditto" that order and C.O.D. to your address and then forwarded to my PO BOX right? :D

Coooool stuff!

[Corey]

You did "ditto" that order and C.O.D. to your address and then forwarded to my PO BOX right?

Oh yeah, naturally... :yes

Awwww, I just noticed I missed a free workshop on basic lighting techniques last Saturday.

http://www.thecamerastore.com/Workshops.aspx

Rats! Garf! That would have been *ideal* for me right now. The fickle hand of fate wrings my scrawny neck once again.

[Corey]

BTW I mentioned exotically bad sales service at Vistek. Thought I'd share this one gem with you as it's a new one I've never seen before.

When it came time to pay for the camera, I pulled out my cash and he started asking me for my name, address, etc. So I said, "Just ring it up as cash". (because I have no desire to become part of their mailing list) So anyhow the guy says to me, "OK. But just so you know, I've heard that the manufacturers don't honor their warranties for cash transactions."

!!!!!!

Can you believe that? So I said, oh really? He said under his breath, "Well, that's *something I hear* but I don't know..." Etc. I told him, "No problem, just put 'er through as cash please, if the camera breaks within a year and you refuse to honor the warranty, I'll just have my lawyer give you a dingly doo and we'll see how it all pans out."

So now he got all agreeable as though it had been a complete stranger who had just uttered his previous words, "Yeah, of course... They can't do that, doesn't *sound* right anyways..." :)

"They". :)

Anyhow this is a new variation on the old techniques I'm familiar with. Small store salesman threatens you with instantly voiding your manufacturer warranty if you don't join his mailing list. Hee har!! :yes

[eric_darling]

Got a shotgun mic, and everything I need to interface it with the camera. Should be good, although I don't have any experience with shotguns so I need some practice using it. Seems pretty good for vocal applications for what it cost:
Shotgun mics are definitely the way to go for field audio. However, you shouldn't use a shotgun mic that is mounted to the camera - consider that useful for capturing ambient only. Get the mic on a pole, mounted over top of the talent's head, just in front, and pointed directly downward. That's optimum field audio position.

There's an old Hollywood sound joke: There are three acceptable means for capturing audio. 1) Boom from over 2) Boom from over 3) Boom from under. What it means is that you should pretty much always boom from over, but never use anything but a boom mounted shotgun microphone.

Some of my best credits are in sound recording.
American Experience (PBS) (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/reconstruction/filmmore/filmcredits_p2.html)
Citizen King (http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/mlk/filmmore/filmcredits.html)
Others (http://www.ozonline.tv/Georgia/GAG/4390.shtml)

Sorry to hear about your troubles with the local dealer. I think there's no good reason to use someone locally if they have no idea how to help you anyway. So, now that you know what you want, order it from a web shop.

[Corey]

Sweet credits big guy. Seriously. PBS stuff is rad.

Yes I will do that Eric, I have a tall mic stand so the mic is way up and then I'm pointing it straight down to the speaker, it's about on a 45 degree angle or so-ish. Thanks for the tip. From now on just call me, "The Boom Goon". I'm going to grab a couple lav mics too, may as well put together a set. They have some OK wireless units at my fave audio store, I'll check one out eventually.

Right now what I need to do is get my two extra rooms set up for shooting. I'm going to use one for computer training, IR promo vids, tech interviews, IT stuff, i.e. I'm grabbing a third computer with a decent sized LCD, a desk, a white board, etc. I'll use our living room for this since no one uses it anyhow.

The second one I'm setting up for shooting interviews and music instructional vids a la Arlen Roth's "Hot Licks" videos. I have access to some incredible players, almost all of whom are flat broke. :) I figure for this room I will use one of those loose canvas backdrops for the music stuff and then just go with the hardwood flooring and fireplace for the interviews. It's a nice little room, plus it's adjoined the kitchen so it's ostensibly over 20+ feet long. Anyhow I can do this on the cheap I think if I plan well, I live very close to some incredible little used furniture stores, i.e. I got matching suede and wood couches last year for $25. Yes, I said $25. They are awesome too, I use them everyday.

Anyhow I just have to get it all planned out and get to it. Something tells me if I can get a couple really good videos out quickly I can make enough to grab a GL-2, so that's the carrot right now.

As for buying local, now that I have the camera I should be OK. I'll just buy my lighting from one of the other stores. The main thing was that I wanted this specific camera and only they had it in stock right now. I'm glad I did hold out though because honestly the quality on this camera is remarkable compared to the typical camcorders I've seen. I'll post sample videos of me stalking my cat eventually.

Here's a hyuk for you Eric, guess what camera get's the most shelf space in the showroom, i.e. is *always* in stock? Yep, you guessed it, the good ol' XL2. :)

I couldn't resist so I asked the sales guy about the GL2 vs. the XL2, I doubt I have to tell you what he said. Anyhow suffice to say that the XL2 is getting big time push from this particular retailer.

On the other hand I enjoyed checking out the GL2. It's a really nice camera, I love it. I definitely feel more of a connection to it than any of the others they had there. I can hardly wait. :)

P.S. at this point in time I have become 100% anti-Sony across the board.

[Derek]

BTW I mentioned exotically bad sales service at Vistek. Thought I'd share this one gem with you as it's a new one I've never seen before.

When it came time to pay for the camera, I pulled out my cash and he started asking me for my name, address, etc. So I said, "Just ring it up as cash". (because I have no desire to become part of their mailing list) So anyhow the guy says to me, "OK. But just so you know, I've heard that the manufacturers don't honor their warranties for cash transactions."

!!!!!!

Can you believe that? So I said, oh really? He said under his breath, "Well, that's *something I hear* but I don't know..." Etc. I told him, "No problem, just put 'er through as cash please, if the camera breaks within a year and you refuse to honor the warranty, I'll just have my lawyer give you a dingly doo and we'll see how it all pans out."

So now he got all agreeable as though it had been a complete stranger who had just uttered his previous words, "Yeah, of course... They can't do that, doesn't *sound* right anyways..." :)

"They". :)

Anyhow this is a new variation on the old techniques I'm familiar with. Small store salesman threatens you with instantly voiding your manufacturer warranty if you don't join his mailing list. Hee har!! :yes

HA! Makes you laugh doesnt it? Peasants!!

Reminded me of a recent experience i had. I go into a clothes shop and see something i like - but they have only one left and it has a small black mark on the sleeve. So i inquire of the sales assistant:

"If i cant get this out can i get a refund?" she replies: "Oh sure, no problem".

Then, same thing happens .. name and address etc. for cash!

"Make one up .. i dont see why you would need that for a cash purchase", I say.
So we get into a discussion about how the 'company policy' requires it. Well that didnt work, so she continues without it.
Just as i finish paying my friend shouts "I found another one hiding in the corner over here"

"Excellent" I say, "Lets take a look at that one." So i go walkies over there with the assistant manager and its looking good. So i ask to swap 'em over!!

"Oh sure, no problem .. we'll just need to refund the other one and run this thru!"

"WHAT?" (where's the logic here) "Its the very same item with the same barcode"
So we get into another discussion about how rediculous this is.
But i give in .. "Fine whatever! Do what you need to do."

Then comes name and address for the refund - here we go again
"Make one up, we already been thru that".

I guess she didnt like this the first time round so she tries harder this time (maybe she just wanted my address, i shoulda just given her my number! silly me :rolleyes ) Anyway, so she tries harder:

"For a refund we HAVE to have a name and address .. its the law!"

LAW? hahahahahaha Gimme a break!

The short answer to that was I argued my case against 'Consumer Law' with the Data Protection Act = end of argument!

You got to admire their effort :eek:

[eric_darling]

Here's a hyuk for you Eric, guess what camera get's the most shelf space in the showroom, i.e. is *always* in stock? Yep, you guessed it, the good ol' XL2. :)

I couldn't resist so I asked the sales guy about the GL2 vs. the XL2, I doubt I have to tell you what he said. Anyhow suffice to say that the XL2 is getting big time push from this particular retailer.

On the other hand I enjoyed checking out the GL2. It's a really nice camera, I love it. I definitely feel more of a connection to it than any of the others they had there. I can hardly wait. :)

P.S. at this point in time I have become 100% anti-Sony across the board.
Ah, don't get too down on Sony. They still make the best monitors (CRT) around. Their production monitors are especially incredible. I swear by their monitor technology.

But otherwise, the last good thing they really did was Betacam SP, and that was like 17 years ago! Beta SP led to the revolution in boutique shops. Until then, there wasn't anything that came close in terms of price/performance. So, I'm with you about their other stuff - although the new HDV stuff is intriguing, but I'm waiting for round two before I purchase an HDV camera.

The XL2 is a better camera than the GL2 in terms of specs. But it's the intangibles about the XL-1 and XL-2 that really bother me. I can't stand the camera's form factor. It's just terrible to use. And the zoom on a $4000 camera needs to be a lot better than the one they put on that thing. It's basically useless to try a variable speed zoom unless you buy a Varizoom or something like that. In any case, if you're going to spend that much on a camera, get the AG-DVX100A or one of those new fangled HDV models from Sony.

[Corey]

Now I have to figure out how to get the video from the camera onto the computer. They included nothing for this, no DV/firewire cable either. So I guess I'll go buy a DV to fireware cable tomorrow and try to figure out how to transfer this video. I wonder if I should grab a cheap DV card like this?

http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&dept=18&MSCSProfile=3C79F0C7EA3162B2059EC88D75C732E8CD1AEE 1E380AAC54B5E7A960ADE4E8EC5A762D38A8D83E5DAA4BE992 0C2F473873DC9C39679BF4E2F49A201076A1C9DDA069662676 0425E6D7B302F9CA89DCFFC26DB1746B2CF819DB3BE262AA15 0ABD603B2C6673C7C7886285778512EE392D746E8297BB54F0 21&sku_id=0665000FS10040467&catid=10526&newdeptid=18

I wonder if it's worth the extra $100 for this one with a breakout box?

http://www.pinnaclesys.com/ProductPage_n.asp?Product_ID=1884&Langue_ID=7

http://www.pinnaclesys.com/images/ProductImages/ss_01B_MovieBoxDV_07.jpg

[eric_darling]

I wish I could offer deep insights in this area, but it's just not the kind of product with which I'm familiar.

Here's a link to a card from Canopus:
http://www.canopus.us/US/products/ACEDVio/pm_ACEDVio.asp
It's a good bit pricier, but Canopus is good stuff.

[Corey]

Wow that is nice. A three year warranty? That's unheard of nowadays for cards. I love that. What a great company.

I'll probably start with this Pinnacle thing for now since it's an all-in-one software/hardware solution and it's in stock here. Right now I have no video software really so it might be a good place to dip my toe. Or at least it'll put me in a position to get started. I can see it's going to take me years to get good at this anyhow, so... :)

I'll have to special order a Canopus card for Stage 2 if I'm still using PC for video at that point. That three year warranty has me very impressed... :yes

[eric_darling]

Canopus is a very good company. I'm very impressed with their self-developed Procoder software. I use it all the time, and despite its expense, has paid for itself a few times over.

And yeah, I can honestly tell you that I don't know anyone outside of a few high-end Avid systems around here who use Windows to handle editing tasks. Although the Vegas software that ships with that Canopus card is respected by many pros as the Swiss army knife of digital video. Sony owns it now, but they didn't build it.

Still, I'd say probably 75% of all video editors I know are using Final Cut Pro on a Mac. Mac owns digital video editing in a way that's as overwhelming as Wintel machines own just about everything else. I run a Media 100 on a Mac at our shop.

[Corey]

Yeah eventually I'll work around to a Mac. Vegas is definitely good software. I'm lukewarm on Pinnacle overall in fact, I'm being driven more by "what's in stock" here in this case than "ideal choice" really. On the other hand $250 CAN isn't bad for a card, full copies of hollywoodfx/titledeko, and pinnacle studio 9 editing suite, so even if I end up grabbing Vegas later and handing this card off to a friend's kid or something after half a year, it won't be a major loss.

Like you say, around about the time I grab a GL2 no doubt I'll swing a Mac too.

I'm starting to notice that for a so called "big city", Calgary has really poor choice. No one has anything in stock anymore. One of my friends has been trying to buy an iPOD shuffle ever since Colin sent me this one and he hasn't been able to find one. How ridiculous is that? They pay out tens of millions of dollars to advertise the thing, and you can't even find one, meanwhile the retailers are bellyaching about low sales. Sheesh. :eek:

[Corey]

OK new development. I just got an email reply from a guy from one of the video stores here. He says I just need to buy a DV to firewire cable and then get software which supports it *and* he rents Vegas for pretty cheap, so maybe I'll try that. They rent entire computers or hard drives, preloaded with all sorts of stuff. In fact it seems like most of the video editing rental places do that now. (???) I've always wondered how that whole software rental thing works, I'll have to look into the licensing behind it. But anyhow from what I'm being told, I can go grab the cable for about $30 and then he can rent me a hard drive preloaded with basic video tools for a fairly low monthly price. So maybe I'll try Vegas after all, I'll go check it out tomorrow and let you know how it goes. :yes

Hey Eric, one more question regarding sync. Is there not some type of timecode generator, i.e. SMPTE which I can stripe the audio channel with so that later on I can sync to that to an external multitrack recording? So for example I am recording a band playing live, so I use a SMPTE generator to both stripe the video's audio channel and one track of the multitrack audio of the band. That would be convenient. Or is there some other system I'm unaware of? Thanks...

EDIT : I now have it on good authority that, except for certain renters of Avid suites and Final Cut Pro systems, it's very unlikely these local videos guys have proper licensing to rent software. Obviously they circumvent that by saying they're actually renting "the hardware", and the software is free, but I don't want anything to do with it. It's unscrupulous. They should just license the stuff properly, but then I guess Sony might not be keen on that. Feh... Anyhoo, can'o'worms.

I'm going to check Ebay, etc, for a discounted copy of Vegas 4.0. I have it on decent authority that, although 5.0 is better, 4.0 is still a very good starting point. I've also been told that "as of version 5.0" you must install the .net framework in order to install Vegas Video. This is the first time I've heard of a major app doing this.

[eric_darling]

Actually, Cleaner XL, which had a run of popularity a couple of years ago, also requires the .net framework. But you're right - pretty rare and esoteric need there.

In any case, your DV camera writes timecode to the tape - which is a better deal in most cases than writing timecode to an audio channel. The DV cable will carry that timecode info to the non-linear editing software and therefore write it to the video file saved on your computer. From that, most audio programs worth their salt these days should be able to read.

Otherwise, if you want to stripe your own and do the audio channel thing, I recommend the stuff by Horita - neat little boxes, and you can often find them on eBay. I found one of their $299 SMPTE TC window generator boxes there in nearly perfect condition for $80 a couple of years ago. It still keeps on ticking.

[Corey]

Awesome thanks. I'll figure out this timecode thing, that should be ideal for certain applications. Man, this is going to be fun. Fun, fun, fun!!! :yes

[Corey]

Yeah, see here all the stuff they rent.

http://www.vistek.ca/procentre/CloserLook/videoEdit/default.asp

Any software you want, they'll rent it to you. Hmmmm... Dubious. :eek:

[Corey]

OK it was a harrowing ordeal which involved me being up for tha past 24 hours or so, but I managed to acquire two Lowel Omnis, lamps, Manfrotto "master" stands, and one barndoor. Only had to go to three different stores to piece it together too. :)

Anyhow I ordered in a third omni but it takes two weeks to come in, so... Saw a nice little Rifa down there and some decently priced light meters, so that will be my March expenditure. Anyhow 2 down, two to go. :yes

[eric_darling]

You've got me beat on tenacity. I'd have given up and ordered from afar.

[Corey]

I ended up having to skateboard about 100 blocks total, so it wasn't all bad. :)

P.S. Two new disfavorites of mine:

1. Salesmen who swear they have something in stock, which they don't, over the phone even after you ask them 3 times, "Are you *absolutely* sure?"

2. Businesses who move to a new location on the opposite end of town in December so that their Yellow Pages ad has the wrong address all year, and whom never remind people on the phone of that when they say they're coming down.

On the upside I finally met a really decent, knowledgable, honest young guy from a decent shop with good stock and fair prices. So it was worth it. From here on out, he gets 100% of my business. He said my third Omni should be in next week-ish. This guy doesn't try to sell you anything you don't need. You just explain your scenario, and he lays out the basics with no fat. :)

Refreshing. Now to sleep.

P.S. this iPOD shuffle is awesome can't say enough good things about it. It definitely makes skating "that much more fun", I'll never skate without it again. It still skips on Snoop Dogg though. :)

[Corey]

Ah yes, the lovlieness continues. Turns out the guy sold me two lights, one of which has no power cord because he forgot to repack it after checking the contents. So... Another trip across town... Unreal. Retail service in Calgary is truly in a state of extreme entropy. It's just phenomally bad right across the board. That's the problem with boomtowns.

[Corey]

Ahhhh, yet another gem. The Fireware cable he sold me is the wrong one. He even gave me a short lecture about how certain he was that this wire is the correct one to connect a Panasonic GS200 to a firewire port because he's "sold hundreds of GS200".

Ohhhhh. This is beyond insane. Surely this is some manner of karmic deficit manifesting itself, it's too uncanny at this point. Of my current setup, not one piece contained what the salesmen said it would when I got home and opened the box. :)

[yosik]

Corey, A question:
What will your end product be? wmv? avi? mov?
if it is wmv and you don't do too much a fancy editing, you could even get away with Movie Maker.
If you do need more, then, Premiere, Liquid Edition, Avid Xpress, Edius, Vegas, are all good contendants, each one with its own advantage and disadvantage.

Yossi

[Corey]

Well we're going to have to do a multi-compress since Eric is on Mac. :) Honestly my personal first choice for PC right now is .wmv just based upon what I see. So that's probably going to be my first choice. Then I guess Quicktime should work good for non-PC folks.

Right now what I'm thinking about is trying to track down a used copy of Vegas Video version 4.0. I could probably get one for $150-$200 if I can find someone selling their old copy. So that will be my mission for this week, but it's probably not going to be easy. Incidentally I heard that you can insert Flash .swfs into the timeline of Vegas 5.0 just as you would insert any video clip. That sounds amazing, I wonder how stable/accurate it is though, I'll have to check that out at some point. The more I hear about Vegas, the more I'm thinking it may be a good choice for what I'm doing.

You're right though, for starters I should just check out Movie Maker. I'll do that after I trade in this firewire cable today. :)

[eric_darling]

Hee har!

Actually, Macs can easily handle a properly encoded WMV 9 or less stream, but thanks for thinking of me anyway! :) Microsoft has long ago released a Mac version of their Windows Media Player. It works about as well on the Mac as QT does on the PC. ;)

QT is good for educational purposes, so it's not a bad choice in your case. I would recommend you consider getting Sorenson Squeeze and compressing to FLV using their 2-Pass VBR Spark Pro codec, since you are already familiar with Flash. You can build a SWF using Flash MX 2004 Pro that will load an external FLV into a playback window. FLV progressively downloads (it begins playback when it buffers enough to complete playback without stopping) like QuickTime, so that's nice. Also, you don't have to worry so much about folks not having the player software installed as you do with QT. As long as they have Flash 7, you're in business.

[Corey]

Yeah I was considering that. I think it's a good plan to go with .wmv and .flv. I'll do some tests on .flv file size and see if I can get it down to an appropriate level. I have Squeeze 3, but not 4, I'll check it out. Thanks. :yes

Oh yeah a couple more questions I forgot to ask before shopping. How many barn doors do I need total for my three omni setup? In terms of scrims/gels, what should I grab to start?

Muy thanks. :yes

[eric_darling]

You need three - one for each light. That is to say, unless you've mounted some sort of soft box (Chimera, Rifa, etc.) to one of the lights, then it can't use barndoors.

To help you get your setup complete, I think you should start with a couple of basic Rosco starter kits - they have them for both gels and diffusion material.
http://www.markertek.com/SearchProduct.asp?item=302010&off=0
http://www.markertek.com/SearchProduct.asp?item=9012&off=3

Open face lights such as Lowel Omni's don't really have a good system for utilizing scrims. So, use diffusion alone instead.

[Corey]

Man, I've got to stop listening to these salesmen and get a book. They keep saying things a lot differently than you, i.e. he said scrims and omnis work perfect together. And then here I took the time to pen my breakaway pop hit, "Girls just want to have scrims" and now you're telling me the dream is over. Well not exactly but that would have been fun.

Anyhow OK, let me grab a Rosco kit and two more barndoors. They really soak you on the barn doors here, $110. :wow

I'm going to grab a Rifa next month, they have a nice one down there, a 500W I believe. Also I'm going to buy some reflectors so I can try using bounced light to whatever extent I can. I saw something there called a "lollipop" which is a 18" round diffuser mounted on a stand for $99. I also saw some nice stand mounted rectangular panel reflectors that were reasonable. I think what I need to do right now is get a good book on lighting basics, that'll really clear me up. :)

Thanks Eric. :)

[yosik]

Corey,
Take a look at: " Lighting for Video" by Gerald Millerson, @ Focal Press.
Concise yet comprehensive book.

Yossi

[Corey]

Will do. Sounds perfect for me right now. :yes

[eric_darling]

Man, I've got to stop listening to these salesmen and get a book. They keep saying things a lot differently than you, i.e. he said scrims and omnis work perfect together. And then here I took the time to pen my breakaway pop hit, "Girls just want to have scrims" and now you're telling me the dream is over. Well not exactly but that would have been fun.
You know sales people - they come from all walks. I would never really trust a salesperson who hasn't regularly used what they are selling. It sounds like you got a guy who either:

A) doesn't know what he's talking about

or (and worse yet)

B) knows but doesn't care that you are a novice, and would rather make a quick sale than do a bit of basic education first

That's a crying shame, but like I said - not surprising. I've come to expect excruciatingly bad customer service from any service provider in any industry anymore. That's why IR stands as a beacon on a hill to me - there's hope yet for customer service and humanity at-large while there are still companies around who truly care what their customers need and think.

I'm going to write a book on how to provide great customer service one day. IR will be a whole chapter.

[Corey]

Good deal. Write a few on video production while you're at it, and sign me up for a copy of each. :yes